ubuntu-phone team mailing list archive

[Piotrek Mitana <the.mail.of.mi2@xxxxxxxxx>]

I don't think moving from Snap to Flatpack will be the best idea. With this
we would lose the base of Ubuntu Core, which is all about snaps. We could
stick to deb base, but Ubuntu Core in my opinion wonderfully separates the
layers - kernel is one snap, additional hardware support is the second
(gadget snap) and the OS core functionality and libraries are the third (OS
snap). At least if I understand the idea of Ubuntu Core correctly. Well
played in case of OTA updates and supporting multiple devices.

Having Ubuntu Core as base may be very helpful, as is sill - and from now
on even more - comercially backed by Canonical. This increases chances that
one day a hardware manufacturer would commercially release the device with
Ubuntu Core and Unity OS on top of it.

And with Ubuntu Core the base is already here - for desktop we do have
Ubuntu Core and Unity 8 snap session. I don't know it Unity 8 snap is
runnable using Ubuntu Core itself (and not the deb-based Ubuntu Desktop
with the snap session started).

Snaps gained some traction in the community. We have VLC, I think Mozilla
mentioned somewhere that it might create a Firefox snap sometime, and some
other desktop apps are snapped as well. Not bad. Even some KDE apps are
snapped and there is KDE Frameworks snap which might be a starting point to
offer Plasma Active as well.

The new OS can and in my opinion should still be all about Ubuntu. Let's
correct some mistakes done before, but take all the bits that are still
alive and have in mind that Canoncal's work can still be a big help in
terms of the core.

2017-04-06 11:49 GMT+02:00 Andrew Penkrat <penkrat8@xxxxxxxxx>:

> +1 for every point. I'd also suggest to consider using flatpak instead of
> snaps, but not sure if it's reasonable.
>
> Regards,
> Andrew Penkrat
>
> On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 at 10:48 Piotrek Mitana <the.mail.of.mi2@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello, I'm new to here.
>>
>> Although I've not been active on mailing lists and on Google+, I've been
>> eagerly observing the Ubuntu Touch from the very beginning. I've also
>> bought a Meizu Pro 5 Ubuntu a few months ago and I am generally happy with
>> it (apart from some irritating bugs that Canonical never managed to fix -
>> mostly unreliable network connection and bettery-draining Wi-Fi).
>>
>> From the observations I would like to share my idea on how I see the
>> future for... well, let's call it Unity. Unity OS, Unity Desktop, Unity
>> Phone, whatever. I don't think I can help with development - at least not
>> now. But I hope that my voice expressed here will be able to get to the
>> developers that want to stay and help them find the way for the project.
>> I've also posted this on UbPorts forum, so that maybe it is more likely to
>> make its way to the devs.
>>
>> ## Let's still fight for convergence!
>> Yes. This is in my opinion the biggest selling point of Ubuntu Phones.
>> It's something new - something that others don't have yet. Ubuntu and Linux
>> in general has lots of great desktop aplications. The vision of having a PC
>> in our pockets it far too exciting to give it up.
>>
>> ## Ubuntu Core can still be a base
>> I believe that so-called Unity OS shouldn't part with Ubuntu. Canonical
>> is still pursuing the Ubuntu Core and Snaps and after leaving the phone and
>> tablet they will pursue that even faster. It's IoT what they chosen to
>> start earn bigger money on and Canonical's IoT is all about Ubuntu Core and
>> Snaps.
>>
>> ### The hardware
>> This implies two things: there are and will be devices and chips
>> OFFICIALLY supported by snaps. There is Raspberry Pi, there is Dragonboard
>> (so it's a Qualcomm Snapdragon in fact - not too far away from phones!).
>> This is why I believe the new devs should continue on what Canonical
>> started and not finished - moving the Ubuntu Phone and Tablet to Ubuntu
>> Core and Snaps.
>>
>> ### Ubuntu Personal
>> Also I believe that Ubuntu Personal concept (snap based desktop) should
>> still be on the list, so the "One OS to rule them all" still can be
>> created. I believe that snaps have still the potential to make up a secure
>> and reliable desktop with nice permission and dependency management that
>> Snap introduces.
>>
>> ### Clicks and debs are not an option
>> Why? Well, click was kind of beta for snaps. Canonical decied to move
>> away from this because they decided to create something better. And snaps
>> are what Canonical wants to give to the larger community, not only Ubuntu.
>>
>> Why not debs? To have the proper system images, OTA updates and a
>> possibility to lock the system partition. Without that probably no OEM ever
>> would consider the system reliable enough to put it on production device.
>> And well, commercial app developers will not want to care about the
>> dependencies in debs.
>>
>> ## The true Unity leads to Wayland
>> And here is the - what the history has shown - the Canonical's biggest
>> mistake: Mir. This is what put away the rest of the Linux community and
>> what created the most conflicts and hatered. Moving Unity to Wayland can
>> give you more traction and more developers willing to contribute to the
>> true Unity on phone. And there is one more thing that community had the
>> problem with and now you can ditch: Contributor License Agreement.
>>
>> ## Unity 8
>> The concept of Unity 8 is pretty good for all the phones tablets and
>> desktop. I really like many features of it and the general concept of phone
>> navigation. Also the scopes are a good concept - but they need to start
>> working much faster and better. Let's make them ALL freely installable, so
>> that anyone could install only those he uses. That will generate some
>> benefits:
>>
>> * The community will not hate us for forcing scopes on users
>> * The OEM's could install their scopes of their choice by default -
>> customization, ability to sell things with this - more likely to
>> comercially back the Unity OS.
>> * Well, the scopes developed to work well would be a wonderful way to
>> interact with the content.
>>
>> And there is one more - Suru design. Ubuntu's font, paperlike themes and
>> iconset. Please do not ditch that as Unity 8 looks really well and the
>> theme, icons and design language is really nice!
>>
>> ## Not only Unity 8
>> As snaps have actually gained some adoption, they can be used to get on
>> Ubuntu Core not only Unity, but KDE and Plasma Active for example - and
>> maybe other DE's as well. A Wayland on top of Ubuntu Core can create a
>> wonderful base for both Unity and Plasma Active. Let's reach the hand to
>> Plasma Active developers, offer them Snaps and Ubuntu Core as base. Maybe
>> they will help in getting Core and Wayland on phones and it would lead us
>> to the common goal - having both Unity and Plasma Active on the phones. And
>> being able to replace one with another with just a snap swap!
>>
>> ## Ubuntu SDK
>> Yet another thing to keep. There is a bunch of cool apps creating with it
>> (Dekko, uNav and more) to be kept. It still may help to reach the
>> convergene goal.
>>
>> ## To sum up
>> So what do we have now? We have Ubuntu Core, we have Snaps and we have
>> Wayland. We have the communities that will develop those and offload the
>> Unity OS's dev team, so that they don't have to develop the entire OS
>> alone. Maybe we have Mir (if Canonical still wants to push it to Ubuntu
>> Core devices), but without Canonical it won't make sense.
>>
>> So let's take care of Unity 8 and Ubuntu SDK, move it further toward
>> snappification and Ubuntu Core, make a switch to Wayland and pursue the
>> convergence further.
>>
>> So this is how I see it. Let's create the true Unity - untiy of community
>> with Wayland and the unity of platforms with Convergence. I still keep my
>> fingers crossed for you, guys. And maybe someday I will be able to jump in
>> as well?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Piotr Mitana
>> --
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>