ubuntu-phone team mailing list archive

[Kristijan Žic <kristijan.zic@xxxxxxxxx>]

Some good news: http://www.unity8.org/

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:05 PM Piotrek Mitana <the.mail.of.mi2@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

> I don't think moving from Snap to Flatpack will be the best idea. With
> this we would lose the base of Ubuntu Core, which is all about snaps. We
> could stick to deb base, but Ubuntu Core in my opinion wonderfully
> separates the layers - kernel is one snap, additional hardware support is
> the second (gadget snap) and the OS core functionality and libraries are
> the third (OS snap). At least if I understand the idea of Ubuntu Core
> correctly. Well played in case of OTA updates and supporting multiple
> devices.
>
> Having Ubuntu Core as base may be very helpful, as is sill - and from now
> on even more - comercially backed by Canonical. This increases chances that
> one day a hardware manufacturer would commercially release the device with
> Ubuntu Core and Unity OS on top of it.
>
> And with Ubuntu Core the base is already here - for desktop we do have
> Ubuntu Core and Unity 8 snap session. I don't know it Unity 8 snap is
> runnable using Ubuntu Core itself (and not the deb-based Ubuntu Desktop
> with the snap session started).
>
> Snaps gained some traction in the community. We have VLC, I think Mozilla
> mentioned somewhere that it might create a Firefox snap sometime, and some
> other desktop apps are snapped as well. Not bad. Even some KDE apps are
> snapped and there is KDE Frameworks snap which might be a starting point to
> offer Plasma Active as well.
>
> The new OS can and in my opinion should still be all about Ubuntu. Let's
> correct some mistakes done before, but take all the bits that are still
> alive and have in mind that Canoncal's work can still be a big help in
> terms of the core.
>
> 2017-04-06 11:49 GMT+02:00 Andrew Penkrat <penkrat8@xxxxxxxxx>:
>
>> +1 for every point. I'd also suggest to consider using flatpak instead of
>> snaps, but not sure if it's reasonable.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrew Penkrat
>>
>> On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 at 10:48 Piotrek Mitana <the.mail.of.mi2@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello, I'm new to here.
>>>
>>> Although I've not been active on mailing lists and on Google+, I've been
>>> eagerly observing the Ubuntu Touch from the very beginning. I've also
>>> bought a Meizu Pro 5 Ubuntu a few months ago and I am generally happy with
>>> it (apart from some irritating bugs that Canonical never managed to fix -
>>> mostly unreliable network connection and bettery-draining Wi-Fi).
>>>
>>> From the observations I would like to share my idea on how I see the
>>> future for... well, let's call it Unity. Unity OS, Unity Desktop, Unity
>>> Phone, whatever. I don't think I can help with development - at least not
>>> now. But I hope that my voice expressed here will be able to get to the
>>> developers that want to stay and help them find the way for the project.
>>> I've also posted this on UbPorts forum, so that maybe it is more likely to
>>> make its way to the devs.
>>>
>>> ## Let's still fight for convergence!
>>> Yes. This is in my opinion the biggest selling point of Ubuntu Phones.
>>> It's something new - something that others don't have yet. Ubuntu and Linux
>>> in general has lots of great desktop aplications. The vision of having a PC
>>> in our pockets it far too exciting to give it up.
>>>
>>> ## Ubuntu Core can still be a base
>>> I believe that so-called Unity OS shouldn't part with Ubuntu. Canonical
>>> is still pursuing the Ubuntu Core and Snaps and after leaving the phone and
>>> tablet they will pursue that even faster. It's IoT what they chosen to
>>> start earn bigger money on and Canonical's IoT is all about Ubuntu Core and
>>> Snaps.
>>>
>>> ### The hardware
>>> This implies two things: there are and will be devices and chips
>>> OFFICIALLY supported by snaps. There is Raspberry Pi, there is Dragonboard
>>> (so it's a Qualcomm Snapdragon in fact - not too far away from phones!).
>>> This is why I believe the new devs should continue on what Canonical
>>> started and not finished - moving the Ubuntu Phone and Tablet to Ubuntu
>>> Core and Snaps.
>>>
>>> ### Ubuntu Personal
>>> Also I believe that Ubuntu Personal concept (snap based desktop) should
>>> still be on the list, so the "One OS to rule them all" still can be
>>> created. I believe that snaps have still the potential to make up a secure
>>> and reliable desktop with nice permission and dependency management that
>>> Snap introduces.
>>>
>>> ### Clicks and debs are not an option
>>> Why? Well, click was kind of beta for snaps. Canonical decied to move
>>> away from this because they decided to create something better. And snaps
>>> are what Canonical wants to give to the larger community, not only Ubuntu.
>>>
>>> Why not debs? To have the proper system images, OTA updates and a
>>> possibility to lock the system partition. Without that probably no OEM ever
>>> would consider the system reliable enough to put it on production device.
>>> And well, commercial app developers will not want to care about the
>>> dependencies in debs.
>>>
>>> ## The true Unity leads to Wayland
>>> And here is the - what the history has shown - the Canonical's biggest
>>> mistake: Mir. This is what put away the rest of the Linux community and
>>> what created the most conflicts and hatered. Moving Unity to Wayland can
>>> give you more traction and more developers willing to contribute to the
>>> true Unity on phone. And there is one more thing that community had the
>>> problem with and now you can ditch: Contributor License Agreement.
>>>
>>> ## Unity 8
>>> The concept of Unity 8 is pretty good for all the phones tablets and
>>> desktop. I really like many features of it and the general concept of phone
>>> navigation. Also the scopes are a good concept - but they need to start
>>> working much faster and better. Let's make them ALL freely installable, so
>>> that anyone could install only those he uses. That will generate some
>>> benefits:
>>>
>>> * The community will not hate us for forcing scopes on users
>>> * The OEM's could install their scopes of their choice by default -
>>> customization, ability to sell things with this - more likely to
>>> comercially back the Unity OS.
>>> * Well, the scopes developed to work well would be a wonderful way to
>>> interact with the content.
>>>
>>> And there is one more - Suru design. Ubuntu's font, paperlike themes and
>>> iconset. Please do not ditch that as Unity 8 looks really well and the
>>> theme, icons and design language is really nice!
>>>
>>> ## Not only Unity 8
>>> As snaps have actually gained some adoption, they can be used to get on
>>> Ubuntu Core not only Unity, but KDE and Plasma Active for example - and
>>> maybe other DE's as well. A Wayland on top of Ubuntu Core can create a
>>> wonderful base for both Unity and Plasma Active. Let's reach the hand to
>>> Plasma Active developers, offer them Snaps and Ubuntu Core as base. Maybe
>>> they will help in getting Core and Wayland on phones and it would lead us
>>> to the common goal - having both Unity and Plasma Active on the phones. And
>>> being able to replace one with another with just a snap swap!
>>>
>>> ## Ubuntu SDK
>>> Yet another thing to keep. There is a bunch of cool apps creating with
>>> it (Dekko, uNav and more) to be kept. It still may help to reach the
>>> convergene goal.
>>>
>>> ## To sum up
>>> So what do we have now? We have Ubuntu Core, we have Snaps and we have
>>> Wayland. We have the communities that will develop those and offload the
>>> Unity OS's dev team, so that they don't have to develop the entire OS
>>> alone. Maybe we have Mir (if Canonical still wants to push it to Ubuntu
>>> Core devices), but without Canonical it won't make sense.
>>>
>>> So let's take care of Unity 8 and Ubuntu SDK, move it further toward
>>> snappification and Ubuntu Core, make a switch to Wayland and pursue the
>>> convergence further.
>>>
>>> So this is how I see it. Let's create the true Unity - untiy of
>>> community with Wayland and the unity of platforms with Convergence. I still
>>> keep my fingers crossed for you, guys. And maybe someday I will be able to
>>> jump in as well?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Piotr Mitana
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>>
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-- 

Kristijan Žic