ubuntu-us-ohio team mailing list archive

[Paul Tagliamonte <paultag@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Hey LoCoHiO,

As ya'll know, we had a meeting. It went quite well ( even though I
was at work, and quite absent, I was there in spirit )

I've pasted logs for team digestion below my email.

Here are the main points:


 - Creation of a 3-person council team to replace current "BDFL" ( me
). Restore the team to it's old council-run status. Sorry about
unintentionally overthrowing the government, ya'll.

 - Cycled contact ( or group contact ( this is OK, providing we have
the "metaperson" filled out as contact ) ) The contact would be the
"speaker" of the council, but not any more "powerful" then the other
council members.

 - The Council will *not* ( necessarily ) be composed of
-us-ohio-buckeyes. Open to everyone and anyone.

As William puts it:

<BiosElement> LoCO will be lead by a 3 person council, elected every year.
Members can be reelected an infinite number of times. Members will be
removed/replaced if inactive for more then 3 months. Basically agreed?


I'd really like to get some conversation going. Are there major
objections with the *direction* of moving the team to a council-run
entity? Logistically, this is fine from the "LoCo Major" point of view
-- this is purely internal.


Please read through the logs, raise points. Baring *major* and
*blocking* objections, we will go forward with this. If someone can
raise a well-thought out and logical stance against this, we will have
to put it on hold and work through the issues.


Order No. 227: Not a step back! ( Ни шагу назад! )

Fondly, and with Love,
Paul

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: William Chambers
Date: Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 11:03 PM
Subject: Logs of the Meeting
To: Paul Tagliamonte <paultag@xxxxxxxxxx>


Enjoy! They go clear down to where you asked for logs. ^_^

<jacob> allrighty, let's get this started I 'spose
<jacob> -----
<tnseditor> okey dokey :P
<jacob> so this is going to be pretty informal, but hopefully informative and
productive
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<jacob> hey gilbert
<gilbert> hey jacob
-*- spwelton bangs gavel ??
<BiosElement> Good timing gilbert
<mathay> Hey dvz-and gilbert
<gilbert> did i miss anything?
<canthus13> gilbert: the bees.
<gilbert> i know i'm late :-/
<tnseditor> horribly late... you missed everything! :P
<jacob> the idea brought up on the mailing list by BiosElement, linked in the
other messages for this meeting, was brought up at columbus u-hr
<jacob> no worries gilbert
<dvz-> lo there mathay
<dmcglone> gilbert: better late than never
<dvz-> how are you?
<mathay> I'm well, I'm well.
<dvz-> Good to hear.
<thafreak> keep going jacob, I'm paying attention
-*- BiosElement pays attention to the meeting >.>
<jacob> lolz
<dvz-> There's a meeting?
<canthus13> dvz-: yep. right now, as a matter of fact.
<BiosElement> dvz-, Yes, Now.
<jacob> BiosElement / gilbert feel free to jump in with suggestions
<jacob> everyone else as well
<BiosElement> jacob, Not sure what suggestions you want, at least that were
not already covered on the email. Unless we want to go over those?
<jacob> the overall thought is that instead of having a defined contact for the
team, we have a group of people to lead it. no one person is relied on, so if
someone is MIA there's no big issue.
-*- dmcglone is turning up hearing aid
<jacob> BiosElement: pretty much that
<canthus13> Hmm.. sorta like a RAID array for leadership, eh?
<jacob> this is sort of how things are right now
<jacob> canthus13: there you go
<BiosElement> canthus13, Sums it up perfectly.
<spwelton> we'll call it a RAIL: Redundant Array of Independent Leaders
<jacob> we'd like to get overall feedback on this idea, people's thoughts, and
get the details down
<canthus13> :D
<Cheri703> my question would be how do you choose who those people are?
<gilch> how defined will the group be?
<jacob> launchpad is being stupid at the moment; i was going to bring up the
original message for this but it won't let me in
<BiosElement> gilch, Very. As in my ideas was 3 people.
<mathay>  I think it'd be easier to comment if there was more information
given. I mean, I like what I hear so far but that isn't much.
<jacob> mathay: that's what we're here to develop
<jacob> a more concrete plan
<dmcglone> I'm with mathay
<greyfox1> spwelton, great idea. I love it.
<BiosElement> dmcglone, That's the point of this meeting >.>
<jacob> here's the original message from BiosElement if you want to read up on
the initial proposal: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-us-ohio/msg00663.html
<mathay> So, several leaders, rotating contact?
<gilch> i like the idea, as long as the group is small and defined
<thafreak> as long as I don't get RAIL'd
<jacob> mathay: it could be that
<BiosElement> gilch, The idea was to keep it small enough so we could all be
in touch easily, but not so small that all the load falls to a single person.
<jacob> it was brought up that this group should be made up of the ReLoCo
leads, as they already hold positions around the state and know what's going
on in the team
<gilbert> the other item we need to solve is whether we should be selecting
the team contact by election
<gilbert> but we can get to that later
<BiosElement> jacob, Problem is we'd have a ton of members then. I think the
task of ReLoCo Lead and 'LoCo Council' for lack of a better term, are pretty
different things.
<jacob> BiosElement: good point.
<Cheri703> perhaps I don't know what all is involved in "running" a loco, what
things are different? what things on a "council" level need to be handled by
those people?
<gilch> i agree, BiosElement
<spwelton> I think tasking the ReLoCo leads as part of this council would be
good because it sets up a tree type system... Also it would give the ReLoCo's
aim, make each member have more say in the LoCo overall, I would think
<gilbert> BiosElement: i agree as well.  we have like 8 reloco leads, and will
probably add more soon.  if we're going to have a council, it should be
small...like 3 ppl max
<spwelton> good point
<jacob> Cheri703: with ohio, not a whole lot; we're fairly well self-led
<BiosElement> Cheri703, The 'council' would be basically 'team contact' as
well as 'overall loco organizer' for larger events such as OLF or bigger plans
then a ReLoCo's scope would be.
<dmcglone> how about having leads for each region
<Cheri703> hmm...ok
<canthus13> dmcglone: ...like ReLoCo leads?
<spwelton> regional managers?
<BiosElement> dmcglone, We already do basically, ReLoCo Leads.
<dmcglone> thats true
<tnseditor> Only one person can be the official Canonical contact, right?  We
would still need one main person
<jacob> we may want to check with the LoCo council on the possibility of
having just a team as a contact, or if they want a single person. but I'm
pretty sure it's possible, and in use by other teams
<BiosElement> tnseditor, That's perhaps not true, but we 'can' just rotate
contact as needed.
<gilbert> spwelton: i don't like that, it makes the org too top heavy and
heirachical
<tnseditor> ok
<mathay> Rotate the contact.
<gilbert> tnseditor: i think a council mailing list can be team contact as
well.  it doesn't have to be a single person
<tnseditor> ok
-*- gilbert wishes paultag was in attendance
<dmcglone> I like that gilbert
<mathay>  Say, every three months or so?
<BiosElement> Even if we 'can't have a team as contact, we can rotate it. So
it's really a mute point.
<BiosElement> *moot
<dmcglone> mathay that wouldn't work for someone like me
<jacob> logistically, as the team is set up at this moment, the team contact
is set as ubuntu-us-ohio-buckeyes, which is made up of reloco leads, ubuntu
members, and canonical folk
<jacob> so I think we're already "team contact" at the moment -- but it's not
well-defined
<dmcglone> why not have 3 or 4 or 5 people distribute the workload, but only 1
will do the distributing
<BiosElement> Why don't we just assume for the time being the 'council' will
be loco contact and deal with the technicalities later?
<mathay> Yeah, needs to be an Ubuntu member as well.
<BiosElement> mathay, Actually not entirely correct.
<jacob> mathay: or aspiring to be one, iirc
<BiosElement> mathay, They need to 'aspire' to be an ubuntu member
<gilbert> dmcglone: the workload isn't that high, so the problem isn't
distrubuting it.  the problem is whether it should be a single person's role
or multiple
<thafreak> Wait, do ReLoCo leads need to be ubuntu members as well?
<BiosElement> thafreak, No
<mathay> Does 'aspite' denote being in the progress of becoming a member?
<dmcglone> Ok gilbert gotcha
<mathay> *process not progress
<gilbert> thafreak: reloco leads do not
<BiosElement> mathay, Not from how I read it.
<jacob> mathay: nobody's set that rule, really. it could be however you
interpret it.
<gilbert> thafreak: in fact team contact does not as well, but should be
aspiring to be one
<thafreak> gotcha...
<mathay> jacob & BiosElement: fantastic. That simplifies things. :)
<jacob> mathay: we may want to ask the LoCo council for a clear definition,
really
<gilbert> jacob: lets just ask paultag ;)
<jacob> gilbert: heh, good point
<mathay> jacob: agreed, agreed.
<mathay> If he was in the house, I'd just throw something at him.
<BiosElement> jacob, It wouldn't be a problem for long anyway, since 6 months
helping the loco should net them membership anyway. >.>
<jacob> indeed.
<jacob> so -- let's get a general idea for people's opinion: are we all in
favor of a council-led team?
<gilbert> so, personally i'm in favor of a 3 person council, which (i believe)
is how the loco was set up in 2007
<thafreak> I still like the council idea, with one person being sort of...the
"chairperson" so to speak maybe?
<BiosElement> I'm in strong favor of a council lead team.
<locyaw> in favor of the council as well
<mathay> jacob: I am in favor of that.
-*- dmcglone in favor also
-*- thafreak aye
<gilch> in favor
<tnseditor> sounds good
<greyfox1> approve
<Cheri703> sure
<BiosElement> Well it seems pretty clear cut to me.
<jacob> allrighty, so we're a step forward.
<Cheri703> yeah, but now you have to figure out 3 instead of 1 :)
<jacob> now back to the discussion of how it's set up; gilbert just mentioned
the 3-person setup from 2007, which sounds like an idea
<gilbert> and i don't think council members need to be reloco leads, but if
not they should be making demonstrable contiributions elsewhere
<jacob> gilbert: I fully agree.
<gilch> agree
-*- thafreak also agrees, reloco leads should be separate from the council
<BiosElement> gilbert, The simple solution IMO is to just vote in 3 members
instead of just one. 6 or 12 month terms sound workable for me. In the event
one goes inactive for 3+ months, hold another election.
<mathay> I'm willing to see how that works too.
-*- dmcglone agrees
<jacob> that sounds like a workable plan, I'd be in favor of longer "terms" so
that more groundwork can be laid, but I like the sound of it
<Cheri703> we can offer the option to re-elect
<dmcglone> BiosElement: maybe have another within the 3 step up
<BiosElement> jacob, An election shouldn't be a 'big' deal like it is now. You
can always be reelected anyway.
<gilch> jacob, yes to longer terms
<BiosElement> dmcglone, What do you mean 'step up'?
<jacob> BiosElement: I suppose you're right
<thafreak> Perhaps more like supreme court terms? For life or until they
decide to step down?
<BiosElement> thafreak, No. I strongly dislike. >.>
<spwelton> yes, you are bound to the ubuntu loco for LIFE
<thafreak> How about with the option to impeachment
<jacob> :P
<dmcglone> BiosElement: suppose we have 3 and one goes inactive, one of the
other 2 will move into the inactives place if he was above, and then bring
someone else in
<gilbert> thafreak: in an ideal world, that would be great, but there's the
danger of getting 3 ppl in there that just don't work well or don't do
anything
<BiosElement> dmcglone, That's a good idea, but It may cause friction
<thafreak> impeach them :)
<dmcglone> what I'm thinking is having ranks within the 3
<BiosElement> gilbert, That's what reelections are for. I don't see why the
loco couldn't decide they were sick of them. :P
<thafreak> we the people just revolt ;)
<Cheri703> ranking everything top to bottom gets tedious
<BiosElement> dmcglone, I'd really rather have them on equal terms. That's the
reason for the odd number.
<BiosElement> dmcglone, If the debate is 'that' big, the loco as a whole can
deal with it I think. We're big enough for that anymore.
<thafreak> I guess terms are fine...
<gilch> i'm in favor of the 1yr, equal terms
<jacob> I don't think we need to worry too much about ranks or "impeachment"
-- if something goes wrong, there's the LCC
<greyfox1> jacob, lcc?
<jacob> ideally we'd want to make this a painless process
<jacob> greyfox1: loco council
<BiosElement> I'm in favor of 1yr, equal terms with the possibility of re-
elections.
-*- thafreak likes painless
<jacob> (meaning we don't use launchpad votes to set this up :P)
<dmcglone> 1yr works for me also, it gives enough time for them to make a
positive impact
<thafreak> We do need a place to collect votes
<gilch> also like the possibility of re-election
<gilbert> personally, i don't like setting terms and having elections since it
is somewhat painful
<BiosElement> thafreak, Why not the mailing list for now?
<dmcglone> I can throw a website together with a simple voting system
<BiosElement> gilbert, Elections don't have to be painful though.
<canthus13> Meh. there are votebots out there that could be adapted..
<thafreak> How about gpg signed votes :)
<jacob> canthus13: that's where things step into the "painful" area
<BiosElement> gilbert, If the team is doing good, everyone's active and happy,
no reason the same members won't stay there. But if other members are doing
things better or making a diff then they'll be elected to replace those who
aren't doing so good.
<spwelton> thafreak:  yes
<thafreak> then Cheri703 would finally have a reason to set them up
<canthus13> thafreak: there's that pain again.
<thafreak> I kid I kid
<BiosElement> ;)
<gilbert> so, there's a danger in making things too formal, but its also
dangerous to have no clear leadership as well.  we need to find a balance.
<BiosElement> Really though, votes = mailing list seems a good way to do it.
-*- thafreak trying to get everyone to set up gpg :)
<BiosElement> gilbert, I don't think we can get less formal then a council. :P
<BiosElement> thafreak, No. Just no. >.>
<Cheri703> considering the fact that while yes, a few people know each other,
the fact that most people (as far as I know) don't know each other more than
through the mailing list, it does make it hard to vote for people...
<gilbert> BiosElement: agreed
<BiosElement> thafreak, (I'm a gpg lover too, but no for this anyway. :P)
<canthus13> thafreak: GPG is a pain with gmail. It works for a while... then
it breaks.. then it works... then it breaks. and I hate evolution.
<thafreak> gmail? you should be using mutt...or custom shell scripts and raw
smtp!
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<gilbert> i think the key thing about a 3 person council is that if there is
one black sheep, the other two can decide to take action.  but if there are
two bad sheep, then there's trouble.
<BiosElement> Back on topic folks
<-- dmcglone (~david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has quit (Read
error: Connection reset by peer)
<dmcglone1> sorry
<BiosElement> gilbert, That's what a full loco vote can be for
<spwelton> thafreak:  who uses smtp? I prefer morse code
<jacob> gilbert: sounds about right
<dmcglone1> what did I miss?
<BiosElement> gilbert, We 'could' have the same problem if paultag went
'rogue' or something. If anything, a council lowers the chances.
<thafreak> What if the council is doing good, and they all want to stay, and
no one wants to challenge....do we need to bother with re-election?
<gilbert> thafreak: i agree thats a problem.  we need to be able to bring in
new blood.
<Cheri703> I think having the terms staggered would be idea
<Cheri703> *ideal
<gilbert> Cheri703: but that may be getting a bit too formal
<dmcglone1> like how Cheri703
<thafreak> I guess...things can get stale...changing things up periodically
might be good
<Cheri703> well
<thafreak> yeah, maybe staggered is better...
<Cheri703> the first "round" could be for more than a year term
<BiosElement> thafreak, We should have elections, but we could just reelect
them
<canthus13> Every 4 months, maybe?
<thafreak> you gguys see how hard it is to pick just one person...if we had to
pick 3 every year...that's the painful we were talking about
<Cheri703> basically one starts their "year" in january, then is up for re-
election in jan, the next from may to may, the next from sept to sept
<Cheri703> something...I dunno
<BiosElement> Lets not put limits on 'terms' or anything, if someone's good
enough to be reelected, let em be.
<dmcglone1> but thats too short for a person to prove themselves
<Cheri703> but they could be left in if people preferred
<BiosElement> Way too short, One year terms I support.
<thafreak> But what if things get stale....
<Cheri703> well, like I said, the first round could be from now til NEXT jan
(not this coming)
<dmcglone1> What could someone accomplish in 4 months
<Cheri703> and I'm talking individuals
<thafreak> like a loveless marriage
<Cheri703> person 1 is jan to jan, person 2 is may to may
<Cheri703> not all 3
<BiosElement> dmcglone1, During OLF? Alot. ANy other time? Not much.
<Cheri703> that way the 3 people move through
<BiosElement> I think we're over complicating this by far
<Cheri703> k
<BiosElement> Seems kinda good but confusing
<dmcglone1> BiosElement: I agree
<thafreak> computer geeks ALWAYS over complicate things!
<jacob> BiosElement: I agree, but it's good to discuss things
-*- canthus13 doesn't think it's complicated enough.
<canthus13> :)
<gilch> i think staggering is a bad idea
<thafreak> I like staggered, I don't want to vote for 3 people at once
<canthus13> Staggering does make it hard to walk straight...
<jacob> the main point of this meeting is to get people talking so we can
figure this out more quickly -- which seems to be happening :)
<BiosElement> jacob, True.
<greyfox1> I agree that 4 months is too short. If nothing else, I  would be
annoyed at all the hubub over elections and all that every 3-4 months
<dmcglone1> thafreak: how about voting for 1 person and who that person brings
along with them
<greyfox1> look at how much activity there has been this time around. I would
like to do that less oten
<Cheri703> I think that at one time saying "hmm, we like you two, but not you,
so you go, and we'll elect someone else" is harder than "oh, you're up for re-
election as an individual, let's decide" then a few months along, do it for
the next one
<greyfox1> often*
<dmcglone1> just like voting for prez and vice prez
<canthus13> dmcglone1: ...runningmates? Bah. the last thing we need is
politics.
<gilch> no running mates
<dmcglone1> canthus13: have you had a look around this room?
<BiosElement> I'd rather just elect the entire team once a year. If say 15
people apply, you can pick the top 3 and go with them. I think that's a great
way to do it
<dmcglone1> lol
<jacob> I know this sounds long, but I'd be in favor of 2-ish-year terms. it
seems to have worked out well for other general ubuntu teams.
<Cheri703> harder to continue any projects in progress though BiosElement
<gilch> BiosElement, I agree
<dmcglone1> +1 BiosElement
<canthus13> dmcglone1: Yeah. I'd rather not deal with that circus. besides...
that sort of stuff leads to infighting.  not something we wanna deal with.
<BiosElement> Cheri703, No it's not. You don't have to be on council to do
projects.
<Cheri703> well, as far as planning things I mean
<BiosElement> Cheri703, I understand your point, but if only council members
can do projects, it's a sad state of affairs. :)
<Cheri703> mmk
<dmcglone1> Now I totally agree with that BiosElement
<thafreak> but we only get about 3 applying
<BiosElement> thafreak, I'd apply if I knew the entire load wouldn't be on me
alone
<jacob> we can get into the details of projects later, but realistically it's
not hard to get something started. post to the mailing list, ask around, get
started
<BiosElement> Problem earlier was I don't want to be the one letting
'everyone' down because I can't pay attention for a week or something >.>
<dmcglone1> BiosElement: I'm in the same boat and somewhat the reason I
dropped out of this run
<Cheri703> once the team contact conversation hits a conclusion, I have a
thought on reloco leads...
<BiosElement> Cheri703, Aight, I'd love to hear it once we get this mess
closed :P
<Cheri703> kk
<Cheri703> well, thought/question
<gilbert> so the way i see it:  we start the council with a group of 3 ppl
that are interested in doing that.  if we get more than 3, then we should have
an election.  terms are eternal unless booted by other two members or
referendum of group or loco council action.
<jacob> gilbert: sounds like a good summary
<gilbert> members should step down quickly once they realize that they've lost
interest or don't have enough time
<BiosElement> So we're not doing terms then?
<gilbert> BiosElement: just my thoughts.  its debatable
<BiosElement> gilbert, If members are inactive for 3 months, they'll be
assumed 'quit'.
<gilch> i would rather have terms
<gilbert> BiosElement: how do you define inactive?
<dmcglone1> lets just elect the guy that has no job and no social life ;-)
<BiosElement> So would I.
<jacob> hopefully this is obvious, but council potentials should read the
Ubuntu Leadership Code of Conduct and agree/sign it
<BiosElement> gilbert, Not active on IRC/mailing lists.
<thafreak> they have to push a button every day
<thafreak> if they don't push it for 3 months, then they're out
<gilbert> thafreak: ha, like a guy in a missile silo
<thafreak> ala 'the hatch'
<jacob> the LCoC covers most of the common issues that are brought up
<BiosElement> gilbert, Hell, let the loco decide inactive. If no one around
can remember/seen them do anything, then they're inactive.
<gilbert> BiosElement: we only want to involve the loco as a last resort
<thafreak> +1 BiosElement
<BiosElement> gilbert, True. But asking around isn't a bad way to figure out if
someone's inactive.
<gilbert> oops thought u meant loco council
<gilch> i agree, if someone is inactive for an extended portion of time,
someone else should take their place. but i would still like to see terms of
1yr or so
<dmcglone1> BiosElement: what do we do with the ones that are active, but
doing a crappy job?
<gilbert> BiosElement: i think it would be up to the 2 active members to
recongize it, give the guy a couple weeks to do something, and if not, start
looking around for a third
<jacob> BiosElement: should we draft some simple "charter" to define how the
loco as a team can act on inactive council people?
<thafreak> dmgwe revolt
<BiosElement> dmcglone1, If they're doing a terrible job, council members
could deal with it or, worse case, have the LoCo vote to remove them
<gilch> even if once a year an email is sent out to see if anyone is
interested
<dmcglone1> I like the idea, but does anyone realize the hard feelings thats
going to create?
<gilbert> jacob: brilliant :)
<BiosElement> The reason I want yearly elections is because it makes people
feel 'safe' coming forward and debating it. I wouldn't be here if I hadn't
'tested' the waters at the Ubuntu Hour and discussed things with jacob and
gilbert beforehand.
<BiosElement> dmcglone1, Yes. But it can't be helped. It sucks but if they're
doing a bad job, they need to go. >.<
<thafreak> +1 BiosElement
<jacob> BiosElement: even with that, we should have a defined document of
rotations and terms or whatever so that we have it written down.
<BiosElement> dmcglone1, Not everyone is cutout to be a leader.
<BiosElement> jacob, Agreed, Not debating that.
<gilbert> jacob: i could take a crack at drafting something
<thafreak> Ok, so yearly elections, with the ability for "incumbants" to run
unoposed?
<BiosElement> gilbert, Want too? I'd be happy to review it.
<jacob> gilbert: if you're up for it
<BiosElement> thafreak, Agreed, but also reelected also. ^_^
<gilbert> jacob: yeah i'm down
<gilbert> jacob: i'll send a draft to the mailing list
<dmcglone1> BiosElement:  thafreak I'm also in favor
<BiosElement> gilbert, Send it to the mailing list to review it.
<gilch> gilbert: sounds good
<BiosElement> Gah, beat me too it
<thafreak> Is there a min vote though? What if they're unopposed, and no one
votes...
<BiosElement> So lemme try to sum this all up...
<gilch> thafreak: then they stay
<gilbert> thafreak: i guess they win?
<BiosElement> thafreak, Then clearly no one cares or thinks they're doing that
bad a job haha
<jacob> ^
<thafreak> ok cool...
<BiosElement> LoCO will be lead by a 3 person council, elected every year.
Members can be reelected an infinite number of times. Members will be
removed/replaced if inactive for more then 3 months. Basically agreed?
<thafreak> well I need to go spend some time with the wife before she stops
speaking to me...
<BiosElement> Heh aight, later thafreak
-*- dmcglone1 aye
<gilch> agreed
<jacob> BiosElement: sounds right. we can bang out the details on the mailing
list or whatnot if there are additional concerns
<BiosElement> jacob, Exactly.
-*- Cheri703 votes for paultag
<Cheri703> :)
<BiosElement> So what about the current 'election' that's been kinda failing?
<jacob> BiosElement: hmm. right.
<gilbert> BiosElement: right, we need to put a stop to that first
<gilbert> BiosElement: and that should probably come from paultag since he's
the current lead
<BiosElement> gilbert, Probably. It shouldn't be a big deal since no votes
were cast or anything...
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<gilch> BiosElement: i think with a more clear set of guidelines more people
may be interested
<jacob> +1 to all of the above
<dmcglone1> One reason I dropped out was because I am under the impression
that organizing things like OLF was part of the position. Doing something like
that would probably be impossible for me because I would most likely have to
use a phone.
<BiosElement> dmcglone1, This is what the council is meant to help with
<dmcglone1> yes, and this does give someone like me a chance, and I like that.
<jacob> dmcglone1: it _could_ be involved, but historically we've had stuff
like that led by people who simply volunteer
<BiosElement> dmcglone1, Actually as for OLF, I was the co-organizer for the
UbuCon this yearr with Jon. I'm not a LoCo Contact. :P
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<gilbert> dmcglone1: this year someone volunteered to do the work, so the lead
didn't have to do much except request cds and show up
<dmcglone1> BiosElement: but was it supposed to be paultag's idea?
<jacob> the *bare minimum* a contact needs to do is file team reports. and
order CDs and be a contact w/ Canonical as needed. so it doesn't have to be a
whole lot, but it usually means the team won't be extremely successful
<dmcglone1> not idea but I meant "job"
<BiosElement> dmcglone1, No, not really. It was approved by him though.
<gilbert> ok, so did we cover all the topics that we needed to?
<dmcglone1> Ok I see
<dmcglone1> that was one of my fears
<dmcglone1> somewhat gilbert
<jacob> gilbert: I believe so
<BiosElement> gilbert, I think so. Besides Cheri703 had a point earlier.
<jacob> we've got an idea started, and that's the important part
<gilch> good meeting
<Cheri703> oh, I just had mainly a question about reloco leads
<BiosElement> Yep, good meating.
<jacob> Cheri703: shoot
<Cheri703> do the reloco leads get together and discuss what they're working
on in their areas? as far as advocacy and stuff?
<Cheri703> and/or shouldn't they? to trade ideas?
<BiosElement> Cheri703, Not that I know about, but they should.
<Cheri703> or does the reloco lead just choose the ubuntu hour spot and go
with it
<BiosElement> Cheri703, That's something I'm wanting to work with the upcoming
council to fix.
<Cheri703> ARE they working on advocacy in any ways?
<jacob> Cheri703: I've no idea what's already done, but I agree it should be
<gilbert> Cheri703: we don't and we should probably have more regular reloco
lead irc meetings
<jacob> and team IRC meetings in general
<Cheri703> are there ways for us general members to reach out to them?
<gilbert> Cheri703: but we need a leader to organize those, which we're trying
to figure out right now ;)
<BiosElement> Cheri703, Best bet wuold be try to dig up their emails and
contact them directly.
<BiosElement> Again, anyone can do it, but it's pretty poorly organized.
<jacob> Cheri703: overall it probably needs more discussion on how to get that
set up, but I agree with your thoughts
<Cheri703> k...my suggestion/thought: at least once a month the reloco leads
should get together and discuss ideas, and/or each reloco should have a
meeting to take input on where they'd like the group to go (and yes, there's
ubuntu hours, but not everyone comes to those)
<gilbert> Cheri703: what do you think needs to be done to make us more
accessible?
<Cheri703> us = reloco leads?
<gilbert> yes
<gilbert> Cheri703: i agree with that.  a monthly irc meeting would probably
suffice since the state is so large
<BiosElement> Cheri703, How about bi-weekly meetings on IRC for ReLoCo
Leads/General Meetings?
<Cheri703> well, I honestly have NO idea what role the reloco leads serve (and
that may be due to a lack of looking into it), I don't know if any of the
relocos do anything beyond having ubuhours
<Cheri703> I think that'd be good personally
<gilbert> Cheri703: i do regular ubuntu hours, and i've set up a bug jam in
columbus.  if you have ideas on what i could be doing better, let me know
<dmcglone1> gilbert: I didn't know about this bug jam
<Cheri703> I'm not saying you're NOT doing things, I'm just saying I don't
know what IS being done, and I think that having people talk about it would be
helpful...
<gilbert> Cheri703: you may want to check out the burning circle podcast as
well (although there hasn't been a whole lot of reloco conntribution to that)
<dmcglone1> please don't tell me the meets are in an area like OSU campus :-(
<BiosElement> gilbert, Problem is I think columbus is the only ReLoCO that
really does much of anything. At least that I've heard.
<gilbert> http://ohio.ubuntu-us.org/burningcircle
<jacob> dmcglone1: they are
<Cheri703> I'm in an area without a reloco (though trying to change that), and
so a. getting ideas, and b. if the groups were willing to help some of us in
the sparser areas (the "missionary" trips I'd suggested), that'd help
<gilch> where are you at Cheri703
<jacob> BiosElement: it's possible other relocos do quite a lot -- the issue
is communication
<gilbert> dmcglone1: didn't you come to one at panera?
<Cheri703> yeah, I looked at that a bit gilbert, haven't listened to all of
them
<Cheri703> mansfield
<BiosElement> jacob, That's kinda what I meant. :P
<dmcglone1> gilbert: no, I came to a meet, but not a bug jam
<Cheri703> Even just a monthly "reloco happenings" sent to the mailing list
would be helpful
<Cheri703> either a "what was done" or a "what's coming up"
<Cheri703> and I know there's the calendar, but...still
<gilbert> Cheri703: i'm willing to head out there (and possibly round ppl up)
if you're willing to put something together and get the word out.  reloco road
trip :)
<jacob> I need to head out in a few minutes, but +1 to what's been brought up
so far
<dmcglone1> I agree Cheri703
<gilbert> dmcglone1: the bug jam was at osu also
<Cheri703> :) yeah gilbert, I've been looking into posters and flyers and stuff
<BiosElement> I'd be happy to go out to diff loco areas for meetings and such,
but my issue would be transport. >.< If we can get a few people to go though,
I think it'd work well.
<Cheri703> trying to get a few people around here to have a mini-reloco
started, then it's not just me :) Unit193 is from mansfield, so we were
discussing it
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<Cheri703> I think that'd be awesome to have the "big" relocos help out those
of us in the boonies
<gilbert> BiosElement: i could drive
<greyfox1> Cheri703, I've got a poster/flyer for Ubuntu hour if you'd like it.
<BiosElement> gilbert, Sounds like a plan ^_^
<greyfox1> You could edit the date/time etc.
<Cheri703> sure, I'll take it! I'm conglomerating from some stuff on
spreadubuntu to put up at the local community college and the library
<Cheri703> might steal some of the loco branding as well
<greyfox1> Nice
<greyfox1> I'll just send it to the mailing list. Other people might find it
useful as well
<Cheri703> good call
<dmcglone1> Yes, I was thinking I may be able to make use of it myself
-*- jacob is heading out. good meeting, later all
<dmcglone1> later jacob
<Cheri703> night jacob
<BiosElement> Thanks for the help jacob, See ya
<tnseditor> see you later jacob
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("Ex-Chat")
<dmcglone1> I do have to say that we need to make becoming "more involved" a
little bit easier
<BiosElement> dmcglone1, Again, I circle back to the point of the council. :P
We need to show people that 'anyone' can help out. ^_^
<gilbert> i'm out too.  thanks for the constructive ideas all.
<dmcglone1> well I'm speaking about new comers etc. people that don't
understand the ropes
<Cheri703> BiosElement: I do think that the "help out" is fairly open
ended...there are gobs of lists of general "ubuntu" things to help with, but
if someone is interested in really being involved in the loco, there's not
much as far as "here's something we would like to implement, anyone who wants
to help, come jump in"
<Cheri703> or whatever
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us-oh
<BiosElement> Cheri703, So you want a newbie checklist of tasks?
<dmcglone1> exactly Cheri703
<Cheri703> maybe? something like that
<Cheri703> WAYS to help out, not just "anyone can help!"
<dmcglone1> thats point blank
<Cheri703> some people would feel more comfortable starting at a local level
than just being told, "oh, go help with bug triaging" that's OVERWHELMING for
some people
<dmcglone1> yes
<Cheri703> I get that it's needed, and I get that it's something many people
can do, but...yeah
<BiosElement> Cheri703, That's kinda what I meant. :P I get what you
mean..kinda. But you gotta realize it's difficult to do because 'we' don't know
what needs done always. >.>
<Cheri703> well, yeah
<gilbert> Cheri703: in terms of local, just get out there, find ppl, find ppl
that need help with something, and help them
<gilbert> Cheri703: have an installfest
<BiosElement> I'll be back in a few. ^_^
<gilbert> Cheri703: talk to freegeek
<Cheri703> yeah...but when you are (relatively) new to a town, "finding people"
isn't so easy
<dmcglone1> true BiosElement, but we can always get them started into
something
<Cheri703> I would LOVE to get a freegeek thing going up here
<Cheri703> (also a bike co-op)
<Cheri703> this town needs that sort of thing
<dmcglone1> Cheri703: finding Linux users in general isn't easy either
<Cheri703> I'm working on it...
<Unit1931> The friend I know said Thurs would work better
<Cheri703> like I said, I'm going to put up some flyers at the college and
library
<Cheri703> ah, ok Unit1931, sounds good :)
<Cheri703> that family or someone else?
<tnseditor>  I'm going to watch some shows.  Talk to you all later
<Unit1931> Family
<Cheri703> nice
<dmcglone1> later tnseditor
<Unit1931> Mostly the dad and son
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<Cheri703> kk, cool
<Cheri703> any particular thursday? or just in general?
<Unit1931> general
<Cheri703> kk
<Cheri703> awesome :)
<Unit1931> If they can come... I will also talk to people at the place where I
volunteer...
<Cheri703> kk, sounds good
<Cheri703> hey, even if they can't come for a while, it's still good that the
word is getting out that there are ubuntu-folk up here :)
<Cheri703> I've been re-flashing my android phone tonight. I'm annoyed that the
new version of the rom I had took out a feature that I use OFTEN...now looking
for another, or will revert
<Unit1931> Cheri703: do you have a set date or thinking of a date for the
meet?
<Cheri703> uhm, really any thursday...I'm kind of planning on just going over
there and hanging out on thursday evenings in general just since I will be
(hopefully) putting up some info somewhere. I'm thinking either 6pm or 7pm,
and we could say 11/11 for the first "official" one? that gives some advance
notice
<paultag_> crap, someone email me logs. I love you all much, be back in a few



-- 
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