unity-design team mailing list archive

[Allan Caeg <allancaeg@xxxxxxxxx>]

Sorry for being gone for a long time. I was very busy with my graduation.
hehe :)

On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Thorsten Wilms <t_w_@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> On Sun, 2009-10-04 at 07:54 +0800, Allan Caeg wrote:
> > email message attachment, "Forwarded message - Re: [Ayatana] [Re:
> > Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines]"
> > > -------- Forwarded Message --------
> > > From: Allan Caeg <allancaeg@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: t_w_@xxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: Re: [Ayatana] [Re: Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines]
> > > Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 07:54:19 +0800
>
> Allan, if you happen to use Evolution, I would recommend that you get
> used to using Reply-to-list (Ctrl-L) ;)
> Then there's Edit-as-new-message to avoid forwarding.
>
> I'll do that :)

>
> > >  For the next release, it's strategic to aim
> > > at the young and web-savvy but it doesn't seem ideal to put in the list
> > > something like "Ubuntu is aimed at working for the young web-savvy
> > > professionals" because the public won't appreciate that and I don't
> > > think it's the long term goal. This kind of information has to stay
> > > internal to avoid controversies.
>
> I don't think the public in a wider sense takes note of such details.
> Once you leave Canonical, there's not much sense of something staying
> "internal". Finally, don't be afraid of controversies.
>
> Probably

>
> > > > Cool, but it's frozen, if not dead. I had to realize that it had
> almost
> > > > no effect on my fellow artwork contributors and once there was a
> design
> > > > team at Canonical in place, I thought it would be up to them.
> > > If so, something has to be done about this. Ubuntu is a distro, not a
> > > personal OS of any artwork contributor (unless it's sabdfl of course).
> > > They have to follow the "Ubuntu way" that we're trying to clearly
> define
> > > here.
>
> Remember that you talk about spare time contributors, doing artwork as a
> hobby. There is no "have to", you can only encourage/discourage and pick
> something or nothing from what is offered.
>
> I would love to follow guidelines to help make a fine OS. I contribute with
my spare
time too. Of course, there are people who want to pursue their own paths and
that's
what open source is all about, but there are also those people who are
really into
developing a distro and the distro needs a sort of guidelines.

>
> > > My definition of usability is similar to
> > > yours but some developers or designers may have a different perception
> > > on this so we have to hear it from them so that we can set a common
> > > goal.
>
> You don't necessarily get the best definitions by asking many people ...
>
> Let's do something to define usability properly, then. Asking people is one
of the
ways but we don't necessarily have to limit ourselves in that way of data
gathering.

>
> > > I mentioned the GNOME's HIG and Tango's guidelines but other people
> > > aren't very keen on following them exclusively (see earlier posts
> here).
> > > It just means that we're not looking at UX with a similar lens. With
> > > different goals, the works of various developers and designers would be
> > > messy.
>
> Yes.
>
>
> > > If developing for a specific DE is saddening to you and making it
> distro-
> > > specific is even worse, what would you suggest? My understanding of a
> > > distro is that it's a unique operating system following its own
> principles
> > > so it's just natural that it has unique components that are included
> based
> > > on a standard. Without a standard of inclusion, the OS would be messy.
> > > If customization worries you, the user can always take stuff out and
> add
> > > on Ubuntu.
>
> To me, a distro is definitively not an unique operating system.
>
> I'm not worried about some level of customization.
>
> What I meant: apps like GIMP, Inkscape, X-Chat, Ardour ... they are
> written for Linux (plus ports) and not Ubuntu. That's good. I don't want
> to see that change, although it would be great if there was less
> friction caused by differences between distros and the need for
> packaging.
>
> That's doesn't seem to be how things work, though. A distro is a unique OS.
That's the whole point

>
> > > It really sounds like a tough job but there's a large community that
> > > dedicated to this in Ubuntu. We have employed people and a lot of
> > > passionate volunteers here. With enough work, we can develop a good
> enough
> > > set of UX principles.
>
> You seem to assume that having many people on it would help. I think it
> would cause unnecessary friction and loss of focus.
>
> Anyway, it would remain to be seen how many people would actually get
> involved.
>
> Let's see if others are willing to help. I'm still willing to spend my
spare time for this.
I believe in sabdfl's vision of making the free desktop experience
pleasurable for most
people through free software process.

>
> > > After coming up with a set of principles approved by sabdfl, I suggest
> > > requiring it to be signed by developers and designers just like the
> Ubuntu
> > > Code of Conduct. Signing would be like reciting a hippocratic oath
> > > (got the idea from
> > >
> http://whitneyhess.com/blog/2009/10/02/a-hippocratic-oath-for-user-experience-designers/)
> > > With its help, UX will get the attention it has always been lacking.
>
> Interesting and scary. People just love feeling pressure, being pushed
> and taking on commitments :)
>
> Better consider the guidelines as statement of intent from the project
> and as a tool offered as help.
>
> Yep

>
> --
> Thorsten Wilms
>
> thorwil's design for free software:
> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/
>
>
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If there's anyone interested in helping promote this effort, you're more
than welcome.
I'll update here whenever I have new ideas :)

Regards,
Allan