unity-design team mailing list archive

[Matthew Paul Thomas <mpt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

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frederik.nnaji@xxxxxxxxx wrote on 04/01/11 10:34:
>...
> On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 15:49, Matthew Paul Thomas <mpt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>...
>> frederik.nnaji@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:frederik.nnaji@xxxxxxxxx> wrote on
>> 17/12/10 15:18:
>...
>>> i'd like to add another issue that contributes to the problem:
>>> We have no "connected to the internet" indicator.
>>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/lucid-online-status
>>
>> That looks like a useful feature, but I don't understand how it's
>> relevant to this discussion.
> 
> Because having in indicator for whether or not i'm connected to the
> internet already untangles the semantic confusion of having a button
> called "Offline" in the Me Menu to a great extent.

It's a fair point that using "Offline" as an IM status might be confused
with Internet connectivity. However, it's been used that way in most IM
clients for a long time. So any replacement would have to be *so* much
less confusing (and/or quicker, and/or fun) that it would be worth the
loss in familiarity.

>...
>>> * always keep Presence controls active, regardless of IM¹
>> 
>> What use would that be? How would you avoid wasting people's time, by
>> wrongly implying that it's useful for them to toggle between "brb" and
>> "In a meeting" (for example) when they're not even online?
> 
> I'd say Notify OSD and e.g. power management or the screensaver service
> would like to know if i'm busy doing something, even if that would mean
> i'm only staring at the screen, or there's a standing picture being
> displayed. Your point makes perfect sense, but i'm not talking about
> the Presence controls in Online-only fashion, i see them as a status
> relevant to the local system also.

Hence the question. Are there any statuses relevant to the local system
other than "Available" and "Busy"? If so, how are they relevant? And if
not, how could we avoid people thinking they were?

>>> * remove "Available", since it is identical with the regular Presence
>>> state for IM and the Desktop Session
>> 
>> What regular presence state?
> 
> that's a known bug (
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/568161 )

That bug report is about remembering custom states, not about whether
"Available" should exist.

>...
> I wasn't sure whether stopping and starting services belonged into the
> launcher and dash, rather than into the status indicators..
> I also can't find the policy on that anymore.. perhaps someone can
> help?

I haven't written it up yet, but you could regard music playback and
wireless connection as examples of services that are accessed from
indicator menus.

>...
>> That's not practical. We'll still interrupt you when you have only a
>> few minutes battery left, or when your hard disk is dying -- as well
>> we should.
> 
> that's clear, and valid, but nothing less critical would be.

True.

>> So, any global knob would be for "fewer interruptions", not "no
>> interruptions". And this would make it impractical to communicate.
> 
> True, i know this from audio workstations, they tried to communicate
> that a certain mode would enable "zero latency", which is physically
> unachievable. So the industry leader ( AVID ) called their
> implementation "Low Latency". I think Low Interruption is not a good
> name, but Do Not Disturb, Silent Mode or Notifications Off or any of
> the like would be quite good approximations of what i am trying to
> establish here..

Yes -- even if you have a "Do Not Disturb" sign on your door, the hotel
staff will still knock to evacuate you in a fire, so it is a decent
parallel. There's much more cultural understanding of that sort of thing
than of a menu item that no-one will have ever seen before.

>> Fewer than what, exactly?
> 
> Yes, clearly that's the main point against this all, i think Ubuntu is
> already so well designed and balanced, the interruptions that occur are
> all wanted, when in the appropriate state e.g. Available or Idle.

Maybe so; personally I think we're still on the chatty side, especially
for networking.

Regardless, you and I both are deeply familiar with Ubuntu as an OS. But
people who barely understand what an OS is would need a very simple
explanation of "fewer than what", of what "normal" means. If we can't do
that, it doesn't deserve top-level system-level prominence.

>> And why would people ever *not* choose fewer interruptions?
> 
> There are states in which i want to be notified aggressively i.e.
> interrupted, and there are states in which i can't afford being
> interrupted. In such a state of course i would make sure my battery is
> charged or i'm safely plugged into a wall socket.
> To me, from a user point of view, "no interruptions" is equivalent to
> "no interruptions, unless critically necessary ones", which
> mathematically translates to your "fewer interruptions". To name the
> ones i can think of by myself:
> 
> * Update manager
> * Notify OSD bubbles
> * Session start sound (login sound)
> * whatever notification is supposed to appear upon incoming voice and
> video calls
> * morphing windows, e.g. for filetransfer requests or contact
> subscription requests
> 
> all of these i would like to see, hear and not miss when i'm set to
> "Available".
>...

So, how would you make it obvious that the menu item covers those
elements and not others?

- -- 
mpt
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