unity-design team mailing list archive

[Ed Lin <edlin280@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 8:12 PM, GonzO Rodrigue <worlord668@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Ed Lin <edlin280@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> There can be more said about it and there's been written a lot on the
>> list already. There's nothing really new to see here and I'm repeating
>> myself as well. The thing is, we are going in circles. I don't see how
>> any progress in this matter can be achieved. Could we get a somewhat
>> official word back as in "Yes we consider these changes for Oneiric"
>> or "definitely no". Or should we take it to launchpad?
>
> See, I was told to take it here because that's where the action is... yet, I
> haven't seen anyone "official" to the Ubuntu project reading or responding
> to any of this.
> Where IS the place one would go to engage the developers directly, if not
> here?
> --G

There were just two official (@ubuntu.com) answer in other threads on
the list, though more API than design... So we know "they" are at
least reading it ;)

The mailing list is for discussions. I think we (the people posting
here since the release of natty and the last few months or so) reached
a consensus that some changes to the Unity application menu with a
focus on desktops is needed better sooner than later (i.e. in
Oneiric). I haven't heard or seen a SINGLE one coherently arguing that
a global menu on a large desktop monitor is objectively better (if I
missed one, please point it out to me). Therefore I'd conclude it's
save to open a bug on launchpad. The more difficult question is the
solution.


Please let me know if I left out anything important. This mail is
intended as a complete summary of the main points mentioned on the
list.


There are several possible ways, broadly:
1.A) Keep the top panel
That's easy, it's the same as setting a global environment variable.
All that's needed is a nice GUI option to expose that to the user.
The problem: Needlessly occupies area that could be put to better use,
interface inconsistency with full screen apps (OS and app level
elements become mixed - as if that wasn't the case already).

1.B) Change the top panel

1.B.1) remove it completely
That's what I favor, see https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg05651.html
This is the most drastic change and would affect all form-factors for
consistency reasons. In the long term I see this approach as the most
promising because it is "touch ready" by design and the most flexible
in terms of display size, rotation, input devices and 3rd party apps.
It would give both Ubuntu devs and 3rd party devs more freedom to
bring Linux applications to the next level (after the introduction of
the new DE is finished), rethink the menu and "indicators", rethink
the desktop, rethink even the concept of applications. It would be
more distraction free and could match the minimalism of Chrome OS for
example, both in usability and design.

1.B.2) partially remove it
Mockup in the attachment here: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg05619.html
I don't like this at all, it looks ugly/funny/strange and it doesn't
really gain any screen estate. Applications with tabs on top or other
such non-standard features would either need a lot of Unity specific
changes or work badly.

The second aspect of this change: What happens to the menu once they
get moved back to the window?

2.A)
revert to the classic layout
That's easy, most apps in Ubuntu are gtk/GNOME based, just follow
upstream in this regard.

2.B)
Windows 7 like hidden menu bar (triggered with alt key and  optional
"menu button"
Should be familiar to many, for new users it could be shown by default
On small screens you could this way stack terminals or file manager
windows on top of each other without sacrificing any space.

2.C)
horizontal menu in the title bar
It simply won't work: See
https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg05619.html (the whole thread,
my reply: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg05645.html ) I
haven't seen a solution to these problems.

2.D)
Wordpad/Paint (yes, they introduced it -badly) or better know as the
Firefox/Opera button
The Problem I see with it: It's pretty slow (because deeper nested),
less consistent/discoverable for new users, requires the most
application level patching. This really wouldn't work for GIMP or LO
for example.

One thing that we can certainly agree on is that maximized windows
shouldn't have a dedicated title bar. The current design of maximized
windows is good but it became clear that it should be
adaptable/controllable by applications (
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/749335 )

Another question: why shouldn't the new layout be default for all
screen sizes/form factors? Small screens with mostly maximized windows
wouldn't be affected after all.