unity-design team mailing list archive

[nick rundy <nrundy@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Well I apologize if I came across disrespectful. But I was active in discussions with the development of Gnome and the people there basically had no interest in how people actually use compiuters. therer were numerous voices complaining about the decisions Gnome ended up making. People are still complaining, as evident by the user list I subscribe to. I tried to approach the changes with an open mind but found them to be unworkable. So I feel Gnome deserves valid criticism on these choices. I have to assume the ubuntu leadership felt similarly about the choices they were making. Else they wouldn't have pushed forward with unity.
As for Ubuntu 10.04, I never said i don't think 10.04 needs updating. I was refering specifically to the Session Menu indicator. Were u referring to this? I think the Session Menu that exists in 10.04 is highly functional and is the best setup on all computer OSs for managing sessions. it's disappointing that it's basically getting thrown out for 11.10. This is the talk anyways. I don't understand the reasoning behind putting all those other items in the Session menu. The session menu items are being pushed aside for menu items of stuff that is already represented elsewhere via Status Indicators, on the Launcher, or is accessible via the Dash. 
Ctrl Alt Tab I know about. Are you able to get it to move from "activities" to the "user/session menu" by tapping the left-arrow key? I'm not. I have to tap the right arrow-key all day to get to it. Without going into too much detail, the keyboard access is a joke compared to what's available on Unity. Even  Windows 7 has better keyboard access to the taskbar and Start menu. For example to shutdown in Win7 I tap Super, right-arrow, enter. I haven't figured out how to achieve somtheing similar in gnome-shell.

> From: jbicha@xxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 18:55:35 -0400
> CC: ayatana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Ayatana] the Device & User Menu concept should be Scraped
> 
> On 2 August 2011 18:09, nick rundy <nrundy@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Why can't the Session Menu stay basically like it is in 10.04? Why does it
> > need a Bluetooth Menu--there's a Bluetooth Status Indicator isn't there?
> >  Displays. . .? Login Items. . ? Attached Devices. . ? Why is any of this
> > stuff being placed in a Status Menu indicator? Personally, I don't even
> > understand why "System Settings" is in the menu. System Settings should be
> > an item in the "Control Center." It has no purpose or place in a Status menu
> > indicator. That's what the Dash is for.
> > The WHOLE Device-Menu-and-User-Menu concept
> > (wiki:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeviceMenuAndUserMenu) should be scraped. The
> > Session-Menu as it exists in 10.04 is FANTASTIC. It doesn't need changing.
> > And everything proposed in the wiki is just useless clutter. It's all
> > represented elsewhere and doesn't fit at all as items in a Status Menu
> > indicator. Why was this concept even thought up? What was the point?
> > Unity is the reason I am still using Linux. If Gnome-Shell was the new
> > ubuntu desktop, I would without any hesitation have returned to Microsoft
> > Windows. I would try KDE and some others over time, maybe. I have already
> > tried KDE a little. But to be honest I'm sick of having to learn whole new
> > desktops. I'm pretty much done. At this point it's either Windows or Ubuntu
> > for me. I've tried Mac OS but can't stand the hardware restrictions (like
> > not having two mouse buttons, not having a backspace and a delete key,
> > etc).
> > Gnome-Shell is a disaster. I absolutely hate it. The way it wastes vertical
> > space, the retarded way it handles Restart and Shutdown (I never use suspend
> > on my desktop, yet that's my only choice in the session menu unless I hit
> > Alt). There's pathetic keyboard access to the Top Panel. The list just goes
> > on & on. Unity saved ubuntu as far as I'm concerned.
> > I just hope Unity with Gnome-3 doesn't end up ruining everything I love
> > about the gnome-2 Unity. Just hearing that there's talk of creating a popup
> > dialog in order to be able to Restart and Shutdown the system is
> > "Gnome-Shell backward thinking." I can't recall how many people I have
> > personally watched sit down in front of Gnome-Shell at my work and start
> > cursing cause they can't figure out how to shut down Gnome-Shell. The common
> > end result = a forced shutdown by holding down the power button. I sit
> > someone down in front of Ubuntu 10.04 or 11.04 and they figure out how to
> > restart or shutdown immediately. Ubuntu already has a fantastically simple
> > and understandable way to control sessions with the Session Menu. People
> > understand it. It works. Leave it alone!
> 
> Gnome Shell is also keyboard accessible; it just needs to be refined a
> bit more. Try Ctrl+Alt+Tab to move your keyboard focus to the top bar.
> I use Gnome Shell as my primary desktop these days.
> 
> There's a handy extension for Gnome Shell called
> alternative-status-menu. Unfortunately the extensions haven't been
> packaged in Debian or Ubuntu yet. (I think the blocker in Debian is
> that installed extensions are currently enabled by default for all
> users which is not optimal as some like the alternative-status-menu
> are useful for everyone but others are more difference of opinion.
> Debian would prefer a proper extension manager be built by GNOME to
> handle installed but disabled by default.)
> 
> I'm surprised that you think Ubuntu 10.04's design doesn't need
> updating. I remember a lot of people complaining about it then but
> people will always complain. Do try to be more courteous and
> respectful towards the contributions of those in the free software
> community. GNOME is not our enemy.
> 
> Jeremy Bicha
> 
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