dhis2-devs team mailing list archive

[Bob Jolliffe <bobjolliffe@xxxxxxxxx>]

Jason,

2009/10/1 Jason Pickering <jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx>

> Abyot..
>
>
> > Can you explain me this further? Because if I got you correct - you are
> > saying you couldn't do aggregation by dimesnsions which are not included
> in
> > the category combos.
>
> I think it is clear that I can create data elements for the data entry
> sheet  I sent the exisitng cateogry combo functionality. This seems
> straight forward, except we are using 1.4 here as the data collection
> tool, and 2 analysis and presentation purposes. That is another
> complication, but anyway, lets assume it is possible, and it certainly
> seems to be the case.
>
>
> >Then for me... you are trying to do something else
> > which is not envisioned during data collection. If a dimesion can not be
> > constructed from the category combos (and corresponding options) then
> this
> > dimesion shouldn't be asked during analysis.
>
> I must completely disagree with you. As I stated previously, a DHIO
> asked me two weeks ago, "How do I calculate the total incidence of
> vector borne diseases?" Well, I said, You can create an indicator for
> this, and add every vector borne disease to it and divide it my the
> population. Seems reasonable. A bit of work, but it seems possible.
> However, it gets stickier when you think about beginning to slice and
> dice the data. Would an indicator need to be created for every
> possible combination of diseases, age groups that we could possibly
> dream up? If so, then we can completely do away with the PivotTables,
> as we can just define an indicator for every possible combination that
> we can dream up! This does not seem practical.
>
> Another solution, as Johan just points out, is that we can use
> different data element groups for this purpose. This seems possible as
> well I guess. DHIS 1.4 and 2 will allow you to do this, but it does
> result in a data integrity violation as entries in the resulting
> PivotTables will be duplicated. Sure we can lump them together, but
> which table tells me that two data element groups should be lumped
> together? The problem is the lack of data element group sets (like
> organizational unit group sets). If there was, then I think everything
> would be fine (at least I think).
>
> > I am only convinced of one thing from this whole discussion - that we
> need
> > to extend the API so that we can do aggregation of different combinations
> > for the available (collected) atomic dimesion elements. As far as the MD
> > model ..... I can take your comments for renaming some of the objects -
> but
> > I don't see a limitation in the model. But again everything is open here
> -
> > and anyone can take it further. I am just sharing my views as I was the
> > central person in the MD issue.
>
> Well, my problem is that in my case, the data elements have not been
> created as multidimensional from the beginning, thus the need to group
> them into dimensions afterwards. I agree, as the categories have been
> implemented now, it seems totally possible to create a data entry form
> for the Excel sheet I have sent you. No problems there, it is just in
> the analaysis that we are missing something.
>
> In reply to Johan,
> >Vector-borne diseases can be a DE group.
>
> But why can't it be a category as well? This is a matter that is still
> not clear. Where should the categories start and data element group
> sets take over? Anyway, this is more of an academic question, and not
> entirely relevant. it would seem that creating categories-category
> combos should be used for data entry, and that data element group sets
> should be used for anaysis.
>
> >If data elements have a category
> >inpatient/outpatient, you can easily get only outpatient data from the
> >pivot table (or, as many other countries: have two headcount elements for
> >each form: Total inpatients, Total outpatients). Communicable and
> >non-communicable diseases can also be an DE group, and if you don't want
> >DEs to belong to two groups, you can lump them together with a query or in
> >he pivot table.
>
> How can I lump them together in a PivotTable if I cannot determine
> that they are in a group set together? I can hardwire it in the query
> with regular expressions to pull out all instances of OPD, IP and
> Deaths in data elements. I can create a supporting table and populate
> them with data elements, but how will it be maintained and accessible
> through the UI? I have done both of these things, but I do not think
> it is part of the current functionality.
>
>
> Anyway, to summarize this, as it seems we may be nearing some consensus.
>
>

> 1) Current functionality for category-category combos is sufficient
> for the purposes of multidimensional data entry, and provides enough
> functionality for analysis of data based on the dimensions defined
> during the data element creation.
>

What it seems is missing is the ability to isolate a category in, for
example, a report table.  So if there is an Age-Sex categorycombo on
Malaria, you cannot isolate Malaria by Sex without also bringing Age.  This
may not be a problem. If it is we can probably solve it through API


> 2) Current functionality for grouping of data elements by dimensions
> for analysis is insufficient and needs to be extended to include the
> concept of data element group sets.
>

Funny.  We seem to have the opposite problem here with the above.  If I
understand you right you are saying effectively we cannot create multiple
dimensions by composition because data elements can only be members of one
group.

And presumably this also applies to indicators.

Regards
Bob


>
> Capiche?
>
> Regards,
> Jason
>
>
>
>
> Best regards,
> Jason
>