dhis2-devs team mailing list archive

[Ola Hodne Titlestad <olatitle@xxxxxxxxx>]

2009/10/1 Bob Jolliffe <bobjolliffe@xxxxxxxxx>

> Jason,
>
> 2009/10/1 Jason Pickering <jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx>
>
> Abyot..
>>
>>
>> > Can you explain me this further? Because if I got you correct - you are
>> > saying you couldn't do aggregation by dimesnsions which are not included
>> in
>> > the category combos.
>>
>> I think it is clear that I can create data elements for the data entry
>> sheet  I sent the exisitng cateogry combo functionality. This seems
>> straight forward, except we are using 1.4 here as the data collection
>> tool, and 2 analysis and presentation purposes. That is another
>> complication, but anyway, lets assume it is possible, and it certainly
>> seems to be the case.
>>
>>
>> >Then for me... you are trying to do something else
>> > which is not envisioned during data collection. If a dimesion can not be
>> > constructed from the category combos (and corresponding options) then
>> this
>> > dimesion shouldn't be asked during analysis.
>>
>> I must completely disagree with you. As I stated previously, a DHIO
>> asked me two weeks ago, "How do I calculate the total incidence of
>> vector borne diseases?" Well, I said, You can create an indicator for
>> this, and add every vector borne disease to it and divide it my the
>> population. Seems reasonable. A bit of work, but it seems possible.
>> However, it gets stickier when you think about beginning to slice and
>> dice the data. Would an indicator need to be created for every
>> possible combination of diseases, age groups that we could possibly
>> dream up? If so, then we can completely do away with the PivotTables,
>> as we can just define an indicator for every possible combination that
>> we can dream up! This does not seem practical.
>>
>> Another solution, as Johan just points out, is that we can use
>> different data element groups for this purpose. This seems possible as
>> well I guess. DHIS 1.4 and 2 will allow you to do this, but it does
>> result in a data integrity violation as entries in the resulting
>> PivotTables will be duplicated. Sure we can lump them together, but
>> which table tells me that two data element groups should be lumped
>> together? The problem is the lack of data element group sets (like
>> organizational unit group sets). If there was, then I think everything
>> would be fine (at least I think).
>>
>> > I am only convinced of one thing from this whole discussion - that we
>> need
>> > to extend the API so that we can do aggregation of different
>> combinations
>> > for the available (collected) atomic dimesion elements. As far as the MD
>> > model ..... I can take your comments for renaming some of the objects -
>> but
>> > I don't see a limitation in the model. But again everything is open here
>> -
>> > and anyone can take it further. I am just sharing my views as I was the
>> > central person in the MD issue.
>>
>> Well, my problem is that in my case, the data elements have not been
>> created as multidimensional from the beginning, thus the need to group
>> them into dimensions afterwards. I agree, as the categories have been
>> implemented now, it seems totally possible to create a data entry form
>> for the Excel sheet I have sent you. No problems there, it is just in
>> the analaysis that we are missing something.
>>
>> In reply to Johan,
>> >Vector-borne diseases can be a DE group.
>>
>> But why can't it be a category as well? This is a matter that is still
>> not clear. Where should the categories start and data element group
>> sets take over? Anyway, this is more of an academic question, and not
>> entirely relevant. it would seem that creating categories-category
>> combos should be used for data entry, and that data element group sets
>> should be used for anaysis.
>>
>> >If data elements have a category
>> >inpatient/outpatient, you can easily get only outpatient data from the
>> >pivot table (or, as many other countries: have two headcount elements for
>> >each form: Total inpatients, Total outpatients). Communicable and
>> >non-communicable diseases can also be an DE group, and if you don't want
>> >DEs to belong to two groups, you can lump them together with a query or
>> in
>> >he pivot table.
>>
>> How can I lump them together in a PivotTable if I cannot determine
>> that they are in a group set together? I can hardwire it in the query
>> with regular expressions to pull out all instances of OPD, IP and
>> Deaths in data elements. I can create a supporting table and populate
>> them with data elements, but how will it be maintained and accessible
>> through the UI? I have done both of these things, but I do not think
>> it is part of the current functionality.
>>
>>
>> Anyway, to summarize this, as it seems we may be nearing some consensus.
>>
>>
>
>> 1) Current functionality for category-category combos is sufficient
>> for the purposes of multidimensional data entry, and provides enough
>> functionality for analysis of data based on the dimensions defined
>> during the data element creation.
>>
>
> What it seems is missing is the ability to isolate a category in, for
> example, a report table.  So if there is an Age-Sex categorycombo on
> Malaria, you cannot isolate Malaria by Sex without also bringing Age.  This
> may not be a problem. If it is we can probably solve it through API
>
>
>> 2) Current functionality for grouping of data elements by dimensions
>> for analysis is insufficient and needs to be extended to include the
>> concept of data element group sets.
>>
>
> Funny.  We seem to have the opposite problem here with the above.  If I
> understand you right you are saying effectively we cannot create multiple
> dimensions by composition because data elements can only be members of one
> group.
>
> And presumably this also applies to indicators.
>
> Yes. That is why I so eagerly pushed data element/indicator group sets
yesterday. We need it for exactly this purpose.



> Regards
> Bob
>
>
>>
>> Capiche?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jason
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Jason
>>
>
>
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