elementary-dev-community team mailing list archive

[Conscious User <conscioususer@xxxxxxxxx>]

Developers from elementaryOS should not be the main force
behind porting toolkits to display servers. This is either
the responsibility of toolkit developers or display server
developers. If anything, for the deeper technical knowledge
this depends on.

Reactions from the GNOME community indicate that they have
no intention of supporting Mir, so this leaves Canonical as
the only option. Historically, trusting Canonical with
something that is not their main focus for Ubuntu's future
results in "adequate but unpolished" at best, and "long
duration breakage" at worst.

Personally, I recommend establishing a strong communication
with upstream GNOME and preparing the field to report bugs
and needs involving Wayland. I also emphasize the need to
either move away from Ubuntu or be prepared to become the
GTK QA team that one can't really expect Ubuntu to be anymore.
Perhaps maintaining PPAs for the entire stack.


Em Qua, 2013-07-10 às 09:27 -0700, Daniel Foré escreveu:
> Hey everyone,
> 
> 
> So here’s the distilled conversation we had with Jono:
> 
> 
> 1. Canonical wants Mir to be used by more than just Ubuntu. More users
> tends to mean more developers which means a better product. Jono
> didn't say it directly, but I think it's obvious that their interest
> in us is mainly about bringing more attention/support to Mir (which is
> reasonable/logical).
> 
> 
> 2. With Mir, they’re building a focused display server that
> prioritizes a convergent cross-form-factor design. Jono referred to
> Mir as being "thin" and states that because Mir needs to run on a
> phone it has very strict performance requirements.
> 
> 
> 3. Canonical also has tools built around Mir that could enable us (and
> others) to easily “flash” our builds onto mobile devices using an
> Android/Mir base. This is probably the most unique/enticing part about
> using Mir.
> 
> 
> 4. Jono wants to reach out to Ubuntu flavors and derivatives to see
> how Mir affects them and how Ubuntu’s engineering team can help ease
> the transition to Mir. For 14.04, we theoretically could run Pantheon
> on XMir which means no meaningful change for us to be able to run with
> a Mir system compositor.
> 
> 
> Obviously there are pros and cons. The biggest con is that it is
> highly unlikely Canonical will put staff hours into make sure stuff
> like Gtk+ and Clutter work on Mir. This work is essential to
> elementary as it stands and blocks us from running natively on Mir. In
> the spirit of the above #3, Jono has assured us that if we're
> interested in doing the work to make our toolkit work with Mir that
> Canonical engineers would be available to answer any questions we may
> have.
> 
> 
> So we seemingly have these options moving forward:
> 
> 
> 1. Port everything to Qt (including Gala the rest of our shell, all
> our apps, etc) and use Mir.
> 
> 
> 2. Port Clutter/Gtk+/etc to Mir.
> 
> 
> 3. Port everything to Wayland (significantly less work than the former
> two options imo).
> 
> 
> 4. Do nothing and use either XMir or XWayland until those are
> deprecated at which point we need to port to one or the other.
> 
> 
> I think at this point, it's starting to look more and more like
> Wayland is going to be the path of least resistance for us. I can't
> imagine we have the development power to try and maintain Gtk
> +/Clutter/Mutter on Mir. But it may turn out that sometime between now
> and 14.04 some group decides to do this work and then we're back to a
> more difficult choice.
> 
> 
> 
> All in all, the conversation leaves us with more talking points and
> more question than answers :p I think the only thing we know 100%
> (even if we do have some other opinions) is that X is dying. We need
> to make an effort to remove any x-specific code from our apps and our
> shell and to move away from any libraries that we know won’t exist in
> a post-X world (like BAMF and WNCK).
> 
> 
> I’ve created a blueprint where we can track our progress in ditching
> X: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/elementaryos/+spec/ditch-x
> 
> 
> Please make sure to file bugs against projects you know contain bits
> that rely on X and link them to this blueprint. The better we asses
> the situation, the easier it'll be to make the transition.
> 
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Daniel Foré
> 
> 
> elementaryos.org