elementary-dev-community team mailing list archive

[Paulo Truta <pinheirotruta5@xxxxxxxxx>]

I'm a little out of the scene now, but i don't really think we should do everything canonical wants. Today they changed to Mir, tomorrow it can be anything else.. And elementary has to follow them.

Also, i think that Ubuntu is no longer a good base distro for elementary to be based on. There are way more stable distros (Like Debian), that don't change that much in time and allow the Elementary developer team to work without the fear of having to modify and / or adapt all the hard work they had. Ubuntu is taking a major remodeling and i don't really think it will stop on Mir.

I think we should really think this for Luna +1. 

PS: I really like Mir and all the thinks the Ubuntu developers are doing for the Linux community, taking it to the next level. But i think Elementary is still a relatively new project and has to have a stable base, or else, iterations of this distro will take even longer to launch than Luna.

Cheers ;)

A 10/07/2013, às 18:40, Conscious User escreveu:

> 
> Developers from elementaryOS should not be the main force
> behind porting toolkits to display servers. This is either
> the responsibility of toolkit developers or display server
> developers. If anything, for the deeper technical knowledge
> this depends on.
> 
> Reactions from the GNOME community indicate that they have
> no intention of supporting Mir, so this leaves Canonical as
> the only option. Historically, trusting Canonical with
> something that is not their main focus for Ubuntu's future
> results in "adequate but unpolished" at best, and "long
> duration breakage" at worst.
> 
> Personally, I recommend establishing a strong communication
> with upstream GNOME and preparing the field to report bugs
> and needs involving Wayland. I also emphasize the need to
> either move away from Ubuntu or be prepared to become the
> GTK QA team that one can't really expect Ubuntu to be anymore.
> Perhaps maintaining PPAs for the entire stack.
> 
> 
> Em Qua, 2013-07-10 às 09:27 -0700, Daniel Foré escreveu:
>> Hey everyone,
>> 
>> 
>> So here’s the distilled conversation we had with Jono:
>> 
>> 
>> 1. Canonical wants Mir to be used by more than just Ubuntu. More users
>> tends to mean more developers which means a better product. Jono
>> didn't say it directly, but I think it's obvious that their interest
>> in us is mainly about bringing more attention/support to Mir (which is
>> reasonable/logical).
>> 
>> 
>> 2. With Mir, they’re building a focused display server that
>> prioritizes a convergent cross-form-factor design. Jono referred to
>> Mir as being "thin" and states that because Mir needs to run on a
>> phone it has very strict performance requirements.
>> 
>> 
>> 3. Canonical also has tools built around Mir that could enable us (and
>> others) to easily “flash” our builds onto mobile devices using an
>> Android/Mir base. This is probably the most unique/enticing part about
>> using Mir.
>> 
>> 
>> 4. Jono wants to reach out to Ubuntu flavors and derivatives to see
>> how Mir affects them and how Ubuntu’s engineering team can help ease
>> the transition to Mir. For 14.04, we theoretically could run Pantheon
>> on XMir which means no meaningful change for us to be able to run with
>> a Mir system compositor.
>> 
>> 
>> Obviously there are pros and cons. The biggest con is that it is
>> highly unlikely Canonical will put staff hours into make sure stuff
>> like Gtk+ and Clutter work on Mir. This work is essential to
>> elementary as it stands and blocks us from running natively on Mir. In
>> the spirit of the above #3, Jono has assured us that if we're
>> interested in doing the work to make our toolkit work with Mir that
>> Canonical engineers would be available to answer any questions we may
>> have.
>> 
>> 
>> So we seemingly have these options moving forward:
>> 
>> 
>> 1. Port everything to Qt (including Gala the rest of our shell, all
>> our apps, etc) and use Mir.
>> 
>> 
>> 2. Port Clutter/Gtk+/etc to Mir.
>> 
>> 
>> 3. Port everything to Wayland (significantly less work than the former
>> two options imo).
>> 
>> 
>> 4. Do nothing and use either XMir or XWayland until those are
>> deprecated at which point we need to port to one or the other.
>> 
>> 
>> I think at this point, it's starting to look more and more like
>> Wayland is going to be the path of least resistance for us. I can't
>> imagine we have the development power to try and maintain Gtk
>> +/Clutter/Mutter on Mir. But it may turn out that sometime between now
>> and 14.04 some group decides to do this work and then we're back to a
>> more difficult choice.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> All in all, the conversation leaves us with more talking points and
>> more question than answers :p I think the only thing we know 100%
>> (even if we do have some other opinions) is that X is dying. We need
>> to make an effort to remove any x-specific code from our apps and our
>> shell and to move away from any libraries that we know won’t exist in
>> a post-X world (like BAMF and WNCK).
>> 
>> 
>> I’ve created a blueprint where we can track our progress in ditching
>> X: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/elementaryos/+spec/ditch-x
>> 
>> 
>> Please make sure to file bugs against projects you know contain bits
>> that rely on X and link them to this blueprint. The better we asses
>> the situation, the easier it'll be to make the transition.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> 
>> Daniel Foré
>> 
>> 
>> elementaryos.org
> 
> 
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