elementary-dev-community team mailing list archive

[Craig <weberc2@xxxxxxxxx>]

I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea, but I think the real issue
isn't that glib.Test is incomplete, but that it might lack a lot of
convenience utilities. I think the community should get some experience
with glib.Test before we go and wrote or own testing packages. Then when we
do wrote them, we can make sure they insightfully address the problems they
purport to solve.
On Sep 3, 2013 9:04 AM, "Erasmo Marín" <erasmo.marin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> So, if TDD is so good and GLib.Test is so bad or incomplete, why not
> to extend it in something like Granite.Test? would be that possible?
> useful? hard?
>
> 2013/9/3 Alex Lourie <djay.il@xxxxxxxxx>:
> > I believe that this has been discussed quite thoroughly already. For now,
> > TDD as a development philosophy is not really appropriate for the eOS
> > development. That is not a direct result of tools missing for
> unittesting,
> > but again, a development process decision.
> >
> > That said, I think that testing is important for elementary, and we are
> > going to try and look for some automation testing. I will post my
> findings
> > shortly about that.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Daniele S. <oppifjellet@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I do understand your point, and I agree with that. But what I want to
> >> discuss is not if the TDD is generally a good approach ( hint. it is )
> >> but if it's the right approach for a community driven project like
> >> elementaryOS.
> >>
> >> about this statement:
> >>
> >> "So if you can test something in a language (if its build in or not) you
> >> can run do TDD."
> >>
> >> You should also consider the effort ( and the cost ). When using a
> >> programming language that doesn't offer unit test facilities applying
> TDD
> >> may be tedious and require lots of effort ( like writing your own test
> suite
> >> engine ).
> >>
> >> ( as background, I'm used to agile methods, at work we use SCRUM and
> PRTI,
> >> we are introducing TDD but at a slow rate )
> >>
> >> BR,
> >>
> >> Daniele
> >>
> >>
> >> 2013/9/3 Michael Lazarski <michael@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> TDD isn't a Technic its a mindset or a philosophy.
> >>>
> >>> It came from the Agile manifesto http://agilemanifesto.org/ .
> >>>
> >>> So if you can test something in a language (if its build in or not) you
> >>> can run do TDD.
> >>>
> >>> Often young developers don't see the need for writing test and even
> >>> experienced hackers don't do.
> >>>
> >>> How often where you hunting a bug and you had to log stuff to hunt the
> >>> bug?
> >>>
> >>> Or how often you see code and you go WTF?
> >>>
> >>> Here come test in handy. Now the young padawan may ask why?
> >>>
> >>> IF a test is good written you don't need to log stuff because when you
> >>> break something the test will tell you what and where.
> >>>
> >>> Now the young padawan says: But should't I write good code instead?
> >>>
> >>> Yes, but the god like programmer is a Myth and if you think your a good
> >>> hacker your probably a very bad one! << Facts !
> >>>
> >>> But how test can make me faster understand someones code?
> >>>
> >>> Simple: People how have Higher Mathematics in School/College/University
> >>> probably have seen mathematical proofs.
> >>>
> >>> Most students think that Teachers do that to annoy the shit out of you
> >>> but this is just wrong and you probably very bad at Mathematics too...
> >>>
> >>> In Mathematical proofs like in test we can see the essence of what the
> >>> hacker wanted to do.
> >>>
> >>> By looking at what he tested and how we can understand how things works
> >>> and how the shouldn't.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> SO you can not test and the code must be rewritten a lot like in
> >>> contractor. maybe not today or maybe not in 1 or 2 months but at some
> point
> >>> it will happen and if the guy how wrote the shitty code is not there
> anymore
> >>> you will prey for test and a documentation of the code.
> >>>
> >>> OH and when people say: look at the source and you will understand it.
> >>> they are pretty dumb too...
> >>>
> >>> Hacking is Art! If I look at the Mona Lisa and someone else will do we
> >>> maybe see the same thing but think very different!
> >>>
> >>> So don't be dumb! Test and Document if you have the workflow right it
> >>> will take not more then 10 minutes of a work hour but it will save
> letter
> >>> tons and tons of work hours!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Greetings lampe2
> >>>
> >>> Gruß Michael Lazarski
> >>>
> >>> --------------------------------------------------
> >>> life simply so other people can simply life!
> >>> Inspired by: https://vimeo.com/17576843
> >>>
> >>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >>> Von: Daniele S. <oppifjellet@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Gesendet: Die 3 September 2013 13:40
> >>> An: elementary-dev-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> Betreff: [Elementary-dev-community] about TDD (Test Driven Development)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I read some threads focusing on TDD, so I wanted to create one where we
> >>> can continue that conversation without being offtopic.
> >>>
> >>> I'd say my two cent about TDD and elementary os development.
> >>> In my opinion our current environment is obstile to TDD for serveral
> >>> reason:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Vala doesn't support TDD out of the box (  other languages do:
> >>> http://cobra-language.com/ )
> >>> 2. GLib.Test is a unit test facility that is available to Vala
> >>> applications, however it's not as advanced as CppUnit, NUnit and
> equivalent
> >>> 3. TDD is great for libraries and backends, not so much for GUI
> >>> applications and Database driven applications.
> >>> 4. TDD needs lots of fakes and mocks to be written, and that could be
> >>> very time expensive ( and tedious sometimes )
> >>>
> >>> Some references to Unit testing on vala apps:
> >>> http://valadoc.org/#!api=glib-2.0/GLib.Test
> >>> http://esite.ch/2012/06/26/writing-tests-for-vala/
> >>>
> >>> feel free to comment
> >>>
> >>> BR,
> >>>
> >>> Daniele "OpenNingia" Simonetti
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alex Lourie
> >
> > --
> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
> > Post to     : elementary-dev-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~elementary-dev-community
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> >
>
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