gtg-contributors team mailing list archive

[meg ford <meg387@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi,

I started adding use cases to the part of the page that Alex added. I tried
to use a style that fit with the manifesto.

Alex, I think it would be cool if you uploaded the xcf files, or linked to
them on the page so we can all see what you've done :) You have a lot of
great ideas that we can think about even now, IMO.

Let me know what you you guys think of the use cases. It's fun to work with
all of you :)

Meg



On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Alex <alba@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hey everyone,
>
> i don't really know on which mail i should answer, so i'm just replying to
> this one.
>
> I have to admit that i'am beginning to loose track of all the proposals
> and feature reqests and it's quite time consuming to edit the mockups. I
> also underestimated the complexity of GTG (there are a tons of featrues i
> didn't even know about ).
>
> It was probably a mistake to start with the mockups right away, as Meg
>  and Bertrand suggested, we should first get a basic direction to design
> towards.
>
> I edited the wiki and made a very basic outline of a possible design
> process, we could follow: (See https://live.gnome.org/gtg/**Design<https://live.gnome.org/gtg/Design>
> ).
>
> Short version:
> Collect information » Set design goals » 'Feature' freeze » Create
> wireframes » Evaluate » Create interaction framework » Evaluate  » Visal
> design/mockups » Evaluate
>
> Tell me what you think about it.
>
>
> Alex
>
> PS: @Izidor: I use Gimp, if you like, i'll upload the xcf files
>
> Am 24.03.2012 01:06, schrieb Bertrand Rousseau:
>
>  Parsing your reply, I tried to identify "goals" that we could assign
>> to GTG. I could identify those goals:
>>
>>  - GTG should promote a useful definition of tasks, a.k.a. an action
>> (verb) towards a goal, and
>>  - help people to refine those tasks down to actionable tasks (a.k.a.
>> tasks that do not require the prior accomplishment of another task to
>> be realized).
>>  - GTG should help people identify what task they can actually do to
>> progress in their various projects.
>>  - GTG should help people to focus only on the relevant tasks given
>> one's specific context
>>
>> Anti-goals (things GTG should not try to accomplish):
>>
>>  - GTG should not actively fight against "abuse" (use of GTG that
>> doesn't lead to efficient organization): GTG should not track down or
>> actively try to prevent those behaviors.
>>
>>
>> And what about those goals?
>>
>>  - GTG should help people to keep control on everything they have to do.
>>
>> I think it's a really important goal! In many ways, it's even the most
>> important one. Note that I'm not sure still that it's correctly
>> stated. It should maybe say something about relieving one's
>> stress/improving one's life in regard to the many stuff he/she has to
>> do. Because, well, many tools actually allow people to keep track on
>> their duties, but not every tools is made to actually make one's live
>> better (Lotus Notes, anyone?) This may sound cheesy, but in the end
>> the difference it can make for someone is important.
>>
>>  - GTG should educate people to organize themselves efficiently
>>
>> IMHO, it's an anti-goal. It's not GTG's work. That could be done
>> through developers' blog posts or else, but it should not be done in
>> GTG directly.
>>
>>  - GTG should help people gather information about their task
>>
>> IMHO it's also an anti-goal: it's not the goal of GTG to help people
>> gather information about their project, but just help them to keep at
>> hand the useful information that allows them to accomplish something.
>>
>>
>> Ok, that's all that I could gather right now. I'll probably post this
>> list on the wiki.
>>
>> Bertrand
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 7:37 PM, Lionel Dricot<ploum@xxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>
>>> Le 23/03/12 19:04, Bertrand Rousseau a écrit :
>>>
>>>> I understand your point of view, and I agree with most of it, but I
>>>> think the reasoning is incomplete.
>>>>
>>>> You define a "correct" way of organizing oneself (task are when all
>>>> subtask are done), and an "abusive" way (parent tasks are container
>>>> for groups of seemingly related tasks).
>>>>
>>>> I'm ok with that distinction. But you actually why the "abusive"
>>>> way of organizing yourself introduce some kind of pervertion
>>>> (either at the organization system level or in GTG and GTG's UI).
>>>>
>>>> Those elements are however essential to the discussion: is it just
>>>> wrong to organize yourself this way? (In which case GTG could act
>>>> as a promoter of a better way to organize, therefore achieving a
>>>> goal of improving one's life). Or is it ok to organize yourself
>>>> this way, but wrong to use GTG like this? (Therefore actually
>>>> deciding that GTG is not made for the people preferring this
>>>> organization scheme).
>>>>
>>>> Depending on those, the stated goal of GTG and its potential public
>>>> would be different. This is something that must be decided, and
>>>> acted upon by carefully designing so that no confusion is
>>>> possible.
>>>>
>>>> Bertrand
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I agree. I said "abuse" because it's not something that I envisionned
>>> when we started GTG. And, as I remember, you agreed with me at that
>>> point.
>>>
>>> Now, at a very first glance, I believe that, yes GTG should promote a
>>> better way of organazing. We are talking about "tasks", not random notes.
>>>
>>> As someone said on Twitter just now, a task usually start with a verb.
>>> If you cannot start the title with a verb, it's probably not a task.
>>>
>>>
>>> 1) I believe that tasks have, by essence, specificities and are not
>>> simply a bunch of notes.
>>>
>>> 2) One of these specificity is that some tasks are required to be
>>> completed before being able to work on another task. (this is the very
>>> essence of a GANTT diagram, for example).
>>>
>>> 3) GTG should encourage its users to manage tasks and help users to
>>> displays only tasks that are useful in a specific context.
>>>
>>> 4) displaying only tasks that can be achieved now is one of useful
>>> filter (currently named "workview").
>>>
>>>
>>> Based on those 4 asumptions, I strongly believe that GTG should
>>> promote this way of working as much as possible.
>>>
>>> As I said, I don't think that it's "a personal way of working": it
>>> depends of the situation and the same person might sometimes use GTG
>>> correctly, sometimes abuse it.
>>>
>>> Also, it should be noted that it is easier to "abuse" GTG than to use
>>> it in what I call the correct way.
>>>
>>> Last but not least, all the bad examples lead, sometimes very subtly,
>>> to non-logical behaviour and, by extension, to procrastination.
>>>
>>> For example:
>>>
>>> - ->  Firefox
>>> - -->  Download
>>> - -->  Install
>>> - -->  Configure extensions
>>>
>>>
>>> Means that, in the current workview, you see 3 tasks. Three of them
>>> being no "doable". Thus, it defeats the whole workview.
>>>
>>> If we hade a "do it now" plugin, a plugin that choose randomly a task
>>> to do it now, it would not work either.
>>>
>>> It means that you have to think about what you need to do. Thus, GTG
>>> becomes a simple "note manager" and doesn't take advantage of knowing
>>> we are talking about tasks, all the "task management" workload being
>>> on your brain, not GTG.
>>>
>>> Last but not least, once the three subtasks are done, you will end
>>> with "Firefox" in your list, not knowing what to do. It might even
>>> stays in your list for a while because you don't remember exactly.
>>>
>>>
>>> There's also the "Kitchen" vs "call the plumber" problem. As I've read
>>> once on Stormy's blog, most of the time we procrastinate on tasks
>>> where we don't know exactly what to do. This is universal and in all
>>> books against procrastination (like GTD).
>>>
>>> I believe that a good todo manager should try to fight
>>> procrastination. Encouraging you to use a verb, displaying tasks in
>>> the way they should be achieved, all of that is useful and, IMHO,
>>> general, not a personal thing.
>>>
>>>
>>> All of that to say that we should not force people. If people want to
>>> abuse a software, that's fine. But we should make it easier to use the
>>> software in one way defined as "correct" by the developers and not
>>> caring about those who abuse.
>>>
>>> I believe that a good software design starts with a strong idea on the
>>> concepts and on how to use them.
>>>
>>> If we choose that what I call "abuse" is a perfectly valid use case
>>> and that we should cover all those use cases, in the end GTG will be
>>> only Tomboy with support for tags.
>>>
>>> But I'm confident that the only reason why people, including me, abuse
>>> GTG is because it's easier and more intuitive. It's not related with a
>>> "personal workflow", only with the natural laziness of listing tasks
>>> in the order they come to your mind.
>>>
>>>
>>> Lionel
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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>>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
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