kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[fabrizio <zonkyu@xxxxxxxxx>]

great,
I will do some tests and submit a patch.

cheers
Fabrizio


On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 3:05 PM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On 9/13/2011 8:44 AM, fabrizio wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> On 9/12/2011 4:20 PM, hauptmech wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/09/2011 11:27 a.m., fabrizio wrote:
>>>>> Good morning,
>>>>>
>>>>> let's sat that we change ctrl-alt-L to Alt-K we still have three more
>>>>> conflicts: P, H, T.
>>>>>
>>>>> the following keys needs to be replaced because they are already
>>>>> assigned to Place, Help and Tool
>>>>> Alt-P
>>>>> Alt-H
>>>>> Alt-T
>>>>>
>>>>> Any suggestion? Once I change these 3 too, the correspondent  hotkeys
>>>>> will be different too..... Are we all cool with that?
>>>>>
>>>>> Are we sure that we want to go a head with this? What we are doing
>>>>> here is drawing a difference between hotkeys and accelerators which
>>>>> maybe many future users will not get and which I am not sure we should
>>>>> be doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers
>>>>> Fabrizio
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 8:54 PM, jean-pierre charras
>>>>> <jp.charras@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>> Le 06/09/2011 11:51, fabrizio a écrit :
>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>> in attachment you can find the simplest patch I can think of to:
>>>>>>>> 1) add the Alt- to all "Place" menu accelerators
>>>>>>>> 2) leave current hotkeys behaviour unchanged
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is this whole idea good?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ctrl-alt-L needs to be changed (in the hotkey default set up I think)
>>>>>>>> because it makes my system log off ! can we changed it? what do you
>>>>>>>> guys propose? any other hotkey cause conflicts?
>>>>>>> K or O should work.
>>>>>>>> I am not sure it will work in windoz/OSX.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please let me have some feedback
>>>>>> I forgot:
>>>>>> Hot keys in Kicad sources are just default keys.
>>>>>> do not forget hot keys are editable,
>>>>>> so it can take a while before the best compromise about hot keys is found.
>>>>>> Moreover this compromise must work fine under Linux, Windows, and MacOSX.
>>>>>> Don't give up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jean-Pierre CHARRAS
>>>> I came late to this conversation and have trouble remembering the
>>>> conclusion of all the various threads of this conversation; but I'm a
>>>> lover of hotkeys so I going to add my thoughts. If I'm covering
>>>> something resolved then it can be ignored for now.
>>>>
>>>> I agree with those that feel that adding a mouse click (tool start) to
>>>> tool selection is bad for those learning kicad through it's menus and
>>>> that listing a hotkey in the menu for something different (<W> or
>>>> whatever) in counter intuitive.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think it's necessary that the power-user Tool-select-plus-start
>>>> hotkey be discoverable through the menus. Being discoverable through the
>>>> hotkey configuration screen is enough.
>>>>
>>>> I also don't think it's necessary that every menu item, even in the
>>>> place menu, have a default hotkey. In fact for kicad to be accessible to
>>>> new users I suggest that only the standard hotkeys be set by default;
>>>> (ctrl-o, ctrl-w, ctr-p, alt-f4, etc). A suggested hotkey setup for power
>>>> users (the existing defaults) can be distributed with kicad and loaded
>>>> once by any present user of the defaults or any user that is interested
>>>> in trying them.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure but once again there seems to be some confusion about the
>>> difference between a hot key and an accelerator.  They are _not_ the same thing
>>> even though people have used the terms interchangeably.  Putting the hot key
>>> character (<W>) in the Place->Wire menu item was probably a bad idea which
>>> caused a lot of the confusion.  The hot key editor also mixes the two concepts
>>> together which just adds to the confusion and probably should be fixed
>>> accordingly.  Pressing the W key has never performed the same action as
>>> selecting the Place->Wire menu item or clicking the wire tool bar button.  In
>>> fact for the most part hot keys have completely different code paths than
>>> accelerators.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I personally would prefer having tool select and tool start not be
>>>> joined. I use hotkeys extensively and start the tool in the wrong spot
>>>> accidentally often enough to be a minor annoyance. I do sympathize with
>>>> those who do like it and think it's a nice feature.
>>>
>>> You can have that without disrupting the existing behavior by assigning an
>>> accelerator to the menu item.  The logical way would be to use the same hot key
>>> letter with a key modifier like Alt+W.  This gives you the best of both worlds.
>>>  Pressing W would give you the current hot key behavior and Alt+W would be the
>>> same as selecting the Place->Wire menu entry.  This seems like a reasonable
>>> solution to me.
>>
>> As already discussed it sounds like a good idea. What do you propose for :
>> Alt-P
>> Alt-H
>> Alt-T
>
> You could add the shift key Alt+Shift+P.  Although I think Ctrl+Shift is an
> easier modifier pair to use and I don't think Ctrl+Shift is used anywhere in
> Kicad so there shouldn't be any conflicts.  It may be worth considering
> Ctrl+Shift instead of Alt+Shift.
>
> Wayne
>
>>
>> they are already used.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ideally recorded macros would implement whatever wicked combination the
>>>> user wanted to apply. Not practical for kicad at this point. Maybe a
>>>> solution is to have a check-box option for 'auto-start' of each tool in
>>>> the hotkey list.
>>>>
>>>> A modal hotkey list is only partially useful; it usually takes me a
>>>> while to learn my awesome keyboard layouts; more if I don't use the app
>>>> that often. Having the list open while I work (or printed) is a must. If
>>>> we have a html list, why not save it as a file and load it with a web
>>>> browser?
>>>>
>>>> I'll stop there. I have some hotkeys to propose but I'll save that for a
>>>> separate thread. I'm psyched to see any work towards usability and
>>>> hotkey in particular! thx fabrizio!
>>>>
>>>> -hauptmech
>>>>
>>
>