kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[jean-pierre charras <jp.charras@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Le 14/05/2012 18:57, Henner Zeller a écrit :
> On 14 May 2012 08:41, jean-pierre charras<jp.charras@xxxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
> > Le 14/05/2012 02:04, Henner Zeller a écrit :
> >
> > > Hi,
> > > Small patch.
> > >
> > > When creating a new schematic or start a new board from your
> > > schematic, a new file is created. But in that case an
> > > attention-grabbing modal dialog pops ups telling the user that 'The
> > > file is not found'. The first reaction of the user is that something
> > > went wrong - but everything works as expected.
> > >
> > > It seems, someone 'fixed' this problem by adding a message to these
> > > dialog boxes that this is normal and expected if this is the first
> > > time happening.
> > > But this fixes the symptom, not the cause (scary attention grabbing
> > > modal dialog box).
> > >
> > > There is really no reason for such a modal dialog, and they should be
> > > used sparingly.
> > > In any other application, if a new file is opened, a message in the
> > > status line is telling about this. If at all.
> > >
> > > This patch fixes this: what used to be a modal dialog box is now just
> > > a status message "New file %s".
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > >    -henner
> >
> >
> > I am not enthusiastic about this patch.
> > The dialog about a not found file is usual, and most of application do that.
> > Assuming "try to opening a not existing file" should be "create a new file"
> > is wrong.
>
> I would like to challenge you on the 'most applications do that' part :)
> If you open an editor with a filename that does not exist, it will
> never complain, it will just treat it as a new file. Actually, from my
> experience, I can't remember any application complaining about this
> with a modal dialog (do you remember examples for applications you've
> seen that?).

Yes : libreoffice.
This is a not so bad reference.
I tried it just before sending my previous mail.
It shows a warning dialog and closes.
Also, you can try:
gcc mynonexistentfile.c
(Yes, gcc is not an editor, but CvPcb also is not an editor)

I am sure you can remember some applications that also to do that.

And Kicad is a bit more complex than a text editor.
Running Eeschema (or Pcbnew) needs a config file, libraries, a working area and more.

 Since my perception is that usually applications treat a
> non-existent file as 'new', this prompted my change. It is just to get
> aligned of what is happening more 'commonly'. And fixing a
> user-irritation problem when working on a new project.

I do not understand the meaning of 'commonly'.
'commonly' depends on Disk operating systems, complexity of applications and countries you are living.

> One of the key-things here is, that the applications are launched by
> the central kicad project managing application. So it already _knows_
> that the file does not exist yet.

Know if a file is non existent is very easy.
Know if it is a normal case is a bit more tricky.

Maybe we should pass a flag (such as
> --nonexistent-file) to the application when launching ?

this is possible.

> > There are lot of reasons when a file is missing and should exist:
> > For instance a file can be missing because it was forgotten when copying a
> > lot of files,
> > or erroneous renaming file command, ...
> > and the user *should be* prompted.
>
> mmh, but wouldn't the user just see that the file is obviously empty
> and it says 'new file' at the bottom, that something happened to that
> file ?
> And in that particular case, the user already knows what the reason
> is, because (s)he tries on a newly copied project.
> OTOH, if someone creates a new project, this dialog box doesn't add anything.
>
> So the modal dialog _maybe_ helps in the rare case that someone
> genuinely thought that the file existed and the program tells her that
> indeed it doesn't. But is that worth annoying users in the majority of
> the cases in which they just start a new project ?
>
> > The issue for new projects (and only for new projects) is in fact in Kicad,
> > that perhaps could create void .sch and .pcb files after creating the .pro
> > file.
>
> Yes, that would as well be an alternative. I think though, that this
> would be a more 'hacky' solution as it fixes a symptom.
> (would just an empty file be ok ?)

If can be a valid empty file (mainly containing a short valid header)

By the way:
A symptom is good:
when you see a symptom you know you are ill, and you should do something.


> merci,
>   -henner


--
Jean-Pierre CHARRAS