kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>]

On 1/8/2015 11:21 AM, Bernhard Stegmaier wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> you are right... if its not mandatory to use KISYSMOD, but someone can
> use any other variable (like Wayne does), then I wouldn't care about a
> "hard" set value (just take my own one if pre-defined doesn't fit). And
> one reasonable fixed path probably would fit 95% percent of users...
> 
> I don't remember the code exactly... is it the same for KISYS3DMOD,
> i.e., I can use any custom variable to point my modules to my 3d-modules
> (I guess the "path" to 3d module is also only given to variable
> expansion so basically it doesn't matter how the variable is called)?

KISYS3DMOD is a special case (for now).  It is the only environment
variable expanded for 3D model library paths.  There is no concept of a
3D model library table yet.  Only the footprint library table supports
environment variable expansion for any user defined variable.

> 
> If both is the case I don't have any objections against having those
> paths set in the bundle for now...
> 
>  
> 
> Regards,
> Bernhard 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> On 2015-01-08 16:40, Adam Wolf wrote:
> 
>> Hi Wayne,
>>
>> Thank you for wearing all those hats!  It makes you a pleasure to work
>> with.
>>
>> I am not familiar with the path dialog work.  From what I can infer,
>> it sounds great--even better than default environment variable values
>> is something users can see and modify without restarting Kicad.
>>
>> If we have a solid plan going forward for this, I feel even better
>> about putting a custom patch for the environment variable in the mac
>> nightlies, in the interest of serving users and not delaying the
>> nightlies release any sooner. As soon as the path dialog stuff is
>> ready, we can pull the custom patch and provide a transition for users
>> if needed.  (I don't expect there would be...)
>>
>> Currently, any custom patches are listed in the README automatically.
>>
>> I would not feel as good about putting custom patches in for the
>> upcoming stable release.
>>
>> Bernhard, folks, what do you think?  Is this a reasonable option?
>>
>> Adam Wolf
>>
>> Cofounder and Engineer
>>
>> W&L
>>
>> On Jan 8, 2015 9:15 AM, "Wayne Stambaugh" <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>>     On 1/8/2015 9:43 AM, Adam Wolf wrote:
>>     > Hi Wayne,
>>     >
>>     > When dealing with Kicad's internals, I often have the
>>     perspective of a
>>     > packager, and sometimes that makes me have weird ideas.
>>
>>     As a developer, packager, and user I have the same issues.  What
>>     is good
>>     for development purposes is not always the best for packaging or
>>     use and
>>     vice-versa.  Finding a good balance is more difficult than one
>>     would think.
>>
>>     >
>>     > I remember the search path discussions and the issues where it was
>>     > impossible to tell which footprint got picked.  I don't want to
>>     bring
>>     > that back.
>>     >
>>     > Right now, KISYS3DMOD has a default value defined in code if the
>>     > environment variable isn't set.  What about if there is a
>>     default value
>>     > for all of the standard environment variables?
>>     >
>>     > I'm not sure what everyone else thinks, but defining those default
>>     > values in CMake might actually be a good idea--then packagers
>>     can modify
>>     > them without patching, but it wouldn't be a problem either if we
>>     just
>>     > split it up into Lin/Win/OSX sections in the code.
>>
>>     I plan on setting the default paths and environment variables as
>>     part of
>>     the path dialog work.  I will most likely use the paths generated by
>>     CMake as the defaults.  This should work in most cases and will
>>     work in
>>     every case when `cmake install` is used to install kicad.  The only
>>     place I see an issue is the windows installer.  By default cmake sets
>>     the install path on windows to c:\Program Files\kicad or c:\Program
>>     Files (x86)\kicad.  If the user chooses to change the install
>>     path, the
>>     default path settings would be wrong.  There are several ways around
>>     this that are very windows specific and each having it's own set
>>     of issues.
>>
>>     >
>>     > Adam Wolf
>>     > Cofounder and Engineer
>>     > W&L
>>     >
>>     > On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 7:44 AM, Wayne Stambaugh
>>     <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>
>>     > <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>>     >
>>     >     Fully defined paths can be used in the fp-lib-table if that
>>     is your
>>     >     preference.  Environment variable substitution is optional. 
>>     You are
>>     >     free to use any environment variable you want.  KISYSMOD is
>>     merely the
>>     >     variable name used for the default footprint library path. 
>>     I use
>>     >     KILCLMOD to point to the path of my custom footprint
>>     libraries.  I set
>>     >     these paths to the same disk partition and and path in both
>>     windows and
>>     >     linux so I'm always using the same footprint libraries when I'm
>>     >     developing on either platform.
>>     >
>>     >     On 1/8/2015 8:33 AM, Adam Wolf wrote:
>>     >     > Maybe.  For KISYSMOD, I am not sure if it is used anywhere
>>     in the source.
>>     >     >
>>     >     > I do not think your work around would work for KISYS3DMOD,
>>     though.
>>     >     >
>>     >     > On Jan 8, 2015 7:29 AM, "Miguel Ángel Ajo"
>>     <majopela@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:majopela@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>     <mailto:majopela@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:majopela@xxxxxxxxxx>>
>>     >     > <mailto:majopela@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:majopela@xxxxxxxxxx>
>>     <mailto:majopela@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:majopela@xxxxxxxxxx>>>> wrote:
>>     >     >
>>     >     >     Can’t users just change that reference to their own
>>     path on their
>>     >     >     own fp-lib-table
>>     >     >     instead of the ENV var reference if they don’t want
>>     the system modules?
>>     >     >
>>     >     >     That would be reasonable enough to me.
>>     >     >
>>     >     >
>>     >     >
>>     >     >     Miguel Ángel Ajo
>>     >     >
>>     >     >     On Thursday, 8 de January de 2015 at 13:53, Adam Wolf
>>     wrote:
>>     >     >
>>     >     >>     I hear what you're saying.
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>     I don't really like the idea of using environment
>>     variables to
>>     >     >>     drive the behavior of GUI programs, especially in OS
>>     X.  They're
>>     >     >>     tricky in OS X, and they're hard to explain to a lot
>>     of users.
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>     Fixing this through changing the behavior of how
>>     KISYSMOD and
>>     >     >>     probably the other environment variables work in
>>     Kicad is probably
>>     >     >>     a fair bit of work, at least a week or two--when you
>>     include
>>     >     >>     developer discussion, regression testing on other
>>     platforms, stuff
>>     >     >>     like that, probably even longer.
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>     I'm not 100% happy about it, but would something like
>>     this be an
>>     >     >>     OK stopgap measure while we figure out the right
>>     thing moving
>>     >     >>     forward?  I am fine only putting this patch in my builds.
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>     Adam Wolf
>>     >     >>     Cofounder and Engineer
>>     >     >>     Wayne and Layne
>>     >     >>
>>     >     >>     On Jan 8, 2015 6:26 AM, "Bernhard Stegmaier"
>>     >     >>     <stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>     <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>     <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>     >     <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>     <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>     <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>>
>>     >     wrote:
>>     >     >>>     __
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>     Hi Adam, hi all,
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>     that IMHO could be problematic (depends on what you
>>     intend
>>     >     to have).
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>     For a single-user environment this might be OK, but
>>     it then
>>     >     >>>     forces modules to be in a machine specific folder
>>     common to all
>>     >     >>>     users. In a multi-user environment you probably
>>     might not
>>     >     want to
>>     >     >>>     have that. And, I never read somewhere that you can
>>     override
>>     >     this
>>     >     >>>     setting of the bundle somehow, so this could be a
>>     once and for
>>     >     >>>     all decision (as long as you don't fiddle around
>>     with the
>>     >     >>>     Info.plist) and you wouldn't need an environment
>>     variable at
>>     >     all...
>>     >     >>>     Further, I think I tried once to use "~" or "$HOME" in
>>     >     Info.plist
>>     >     >>>     but it doesn't expand such variables. So, you obviously
>>     >     can't set
>>     >     >>>     the path to something in user home with this method.
>>     >     >>>     Last, I don't know if always any (non-root) user is
>>     allowed to
>>     >     >>>     write into /Library/Application Support/kicad?
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>     In my opinion, the old concept of search paths did
>>     fit such
>>     >     >>>     hardcoded paths much better than it is currently with
>>     >     environment
>>     >     >>>     variables. If environment variables are too hard to
>>     set, then
>>     >     >>>     probably a configuration setting directly from some
>>     "Settings"
>>     >     >>>     menu would be better.
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>     My opionion: I wouldn't want to have it that way,
>>     but since I am
>>     >     >>>     the only one using KiCad on my machines I can also
>>     live with
>>     >     some
>>     >     >>>     links pushing things into the spot I want to have it.
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>     This altogether is somewhat inconsistent, because
>>     eeschema will
>>     >     >>>     *always* look in <base>/library with <base> being
>>     (in that
>>     >     order):
>>     >     >>>     * $KICAD
>>     >     >>>     * ~/Library/Application Support
>>     >     >>>     * /Library/Application Support
>>     >     >>>     * <kicad.app>/Contents/SharedSupport
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>     So, if the path should be fixed for pcbnew, I would
>>     at least
>>     >     >>>     expect eeschema to behave the same way (i.e.,
>>     removing all the
>>     >     >>>     other paths and also pointing it to the one global
>>     >     >>>     /Library/Application/Support/kicad/library).
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>     Regards,
>>     >     >>>     Bernhard
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>     PS:
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>     I just had a brief look at the Apple docs and did
>>     see here
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     
>>     https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/General/Reference/InfoPlistKeyReference/Articles/LaunchServicesKeys.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20001431-106825
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>     that obviously the environment set in the Info-plist
>>     is only
>>     >     >>>     valid when launching via an icon, but not via
>>     command-line:
>>     >     >>>     <<<
>>     >     >>>     These environment variables are set only for apps
>>     launched
>>     >     >>>     through Launch Services. If you run your executable
>>     directly
>>     >     from
>>     >     >>>     the command line, these environment variables are
>>     not set.
>>     >     >>>     >>>
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>     So, another issue that already now with the KIGITHUB
>>     variable
>>     >     >>>     might lead to confusion...
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>     On 2015-01-08 06:52, Adam Wolf wrote:
>>     >     >>>
>>     >     >>>>     Hi folks,
>>     >     >>>>
>>     >     >>>>     As you may know, it's harder than it seems to set an
>>     >     environment
>>     >     >>>>     variable on a bundle in OS X as a user.
>>     >     >>>>
>>     >     >>>>     I have a patch here for the OS X bundle that sets
>>     KISYSMOD to
>>     >     >>>>     /Library/Application Support/kicad/modules
>>     >     >>>>
>>     >     >>>>     Please let me know if there are any questions or
>>     comments.
>>     >     >>>>
>>     >     >>>>     Thanks!
>>     >     >>>>
>>     >     >>>>     Adam Wolf
>>     >     >>>>     Cofounder and Engineer
>>     >     >>>>     W&L
>>     >     >>>>
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