kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>]

On 11/4/2015 9:01 PM, Stefano Rossi wrote:
> Firstly I would like to point out I am not a kicad developer, but more
> of an interested individual on KiCADs success.
> 
> When I hear that UI refinement is not necessary. I cringe. It is devoid
> of any logical thinking and consistency. Each and every one of the kicad
> programs has its own way of doing things. I read that Wayne says it
> isn't important to have "fancy" menus and shortcuts are better. That is
> just making a program for your own use, an no one else. Look at Altium,
> P-P or right click Place->Part. When I started, I already had experience
> with Eagle, all that was necessary was to adjust to the Altium way. I
> did everything as a newbie, menus. Once I got the hang of it, the
> transition to the shortcuts is just natural.

I did not say that.  I said "We can do both but I will not bow down to
the usability gods who make it take longer to lay out a schematic and/or
board (think gnome2 to gnome3 changes)."  Did you not see the "We can do
both part"?  Please do not put words in my mouth.  I do a good enough
job of that myself.  Pcbnew has a "Get and Place Footprint" context menu
entry and a Place->Part main menu entry.  The former finds an existing
footprint and snaps it to the cursor.  The second allows you to place a
footprint that is not in the netlist on the board.  Is this really that
much different or am I missing something?  Have you used a recent
version pcbnew to lay out a pcb or are you using the old stable version?
 I never suggested that the kicad UI could not be improved.  I'm fine
with adding drag handles and other editing niceties to kicad up to point
when I can no long just use a hot key to perform the same action.  I
will reject any UI commit that does not have a sane shortcut or breaks
the existing shortcuts in the name of usability.  That is all I am
saying.  I'm willing to bet there are a lot more people who agree with
this than disagree with this.

> 
> Watching EEVblogs first time experience with Kicad is just proof of it.
> As an EE you want to use the tool based on previous experiences. With
> kicad, one MUST have a manual explaining each and every step, and also
> translating its lingo. Why the name changes to industry standards? (ie
> Footprint=Module) Even on CERNs page there is talk about having a
> cohesive UI.

Where is module used in the latest kicad?  We changed over from module
to footprint a long time ago.  If you see the work module used in any
kicad UI string in the current release candidate, please let us know so
we can fix it.

> 
> Also, it isn't clear the goals. Are CERNs goals kicad goals? I have
> learned that if you have no clear goals you will waste time in useless
> features. Feature creep. Then the rest of the time is putting out fires
> till someone branches out and starts from scratch.

CERN's goals and KiCad's goals are aligned and we are in constant
communication.  It may not seem that way but they are.

> 
> Lastly, I know that keeping it fun helps developers on the project, but
> fun alone with no heading is just a crash coarse waiting to happen. The
> easier to learn to use the program, the more users. That could bring
> more developers, more interest.
> 
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:08 PM, <xarx@xxxxxx <mailto:xarx@xxxxxx>> wrote:
> 
>     Situation: As a KiCad newbie, I'm not satisfied with how some
>     functionalities
>     work, say, how the cooperation with the simulation engine works.
>     Having no information on development intentions of the current KiCad
>     development team, I end up by proposing a patch that tries to fix
>     the existing
>     KiCad functionality without much pain.
>     If I read the road map, I would see there: "Simulations: Provide quality
>     circuit simulation capabilities similar to commercial products - no
>     progress".
>     Now I have no idea what are the expectation from the "quality circuit
>     simulator", how should it look like. And thus I would give up at the
>     very
>     beginning.
> 
>     However, If I got a high-level design, I would get an idea how much
>     work it
>     will be, whether I have the expertise needed, and whether I am
>     interested in
>     the functionality as designed. I would compare my effort and gains,
>     whether it
>     would bring me a better functionality than the patch mentioned
>     above. And then
>     I could decide to try that, because at least I would know that if I
>     follow the
>     design, my contribution won't get rejected.
> 
>     I know this is sad, but the newbie cannot make the high-level design by
>     himself. It must be a long-time KiCad user or a long-time KiCad
>     developer.
> 
>         Martin.
> 
> 
>     ----- Původní zpráva -----
>     Odesílatel: Javier Serrano <javier.serrano.pareja@xxxxxxxxx
>     <mailto:javier.serrano.pareja@xxxxxxxxx>>
>     Příjemce: xarx@xxxxxx <mailto:xarx@xxxxxx>
>     Datum: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 21:10:47 +0100
>     Předmět: Re: [Kicad-developers] About collaboration, simulation,
>     documentation, organisation, usability and documentation
> 
> 
>     > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:26 PM,  <xarx@xxxxxx <mailto:xarx@xxxxxx>> wrote:
>     > >> We actually do have an idea where we are headed and a road map
>     > >
>     > > That's good, but they are still too vague for a newbie to learn what
>     exactly
>     > > needs to be done.
>     >
>     > As a newbie, what type of information would you expect to find, and how?
>     >
>     > Thanks,
>     >
>     > Javier
>     >
> 
> 
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> 
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