kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Adam Wolf <adamwolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi folks,

I will prepare a PR to shorten the macOS Download page while including
instructions.

This will allow folks who are not macOS users to know the appropriate steps
and help out on the forums.

It is true that nearly all of our users don't need these instructions, but
by putting them only inside the DMG, it means that other folks, while
trying be helpful, make a bunch of guesses that muddy the water.  By having
the instructions on the website, everyone can get guided by the official
steps which should help prevent the further spread of "helpful guesses".

Thanks for this, everyone.  This will result in a better KiCad.

Adam

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 12:24 PM Nick Østergaard <oe.nick@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Yes, exactly my point. We already used the 30 seconds of attention span on
> the download page trying to help describe the different options for stable
> and what versions og macos is supported.
>
> The user simply need one click to go to the instructions after that one
> click needed to open the installer.
>
> lør. 25. apr. 2020 15.17 skrev Michael Kavanagh <
> michael@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
>> I really do not think that is necessary. Anyone who has owned a Mac
>> for more than a few hours (the initial install/setup phase) will be
>> well acquainted with the process.
>>
>> The KiCad macOS download page is already a bit "complicated" and
>> "confusing" for us "special Mac people". Usually it's just an empty
>> page with a big download button ;)
>>
>> https://www.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/mac/
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 at 07:50, Rene Pöschl <poeschlr@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi again,
>> >
>> > might it be a good idea to add the content of the Readme to the download
>> > page? That way it would bring the Mac download page to the standard of
>> > the ubuntu one. (That page also explains the "normal" way to install
>> > from a third party source.) Even better would be if screenshots are
>> > included as the process is done in a graphical interface.
>> >
>> > My reasoning here would be that having this info clearly visible without
>> > needing to download anything would help anyone that needs to help others
>> > install software on any platform. So the forum users, teachers and
>> > possibly even the IT guys in companies might benefit from such detailed
>> > explanations.
>> >
>> > I would assume there might be differences depending on Mac version which
>> > is why i first ask here instead of just copying the content of adams
>> > mail into a pull request on the website repo.
>> >
>> > On 24/04/2020 17:31, Adam Wolf wrote:
>> > > Hi folks,
>> > >
>> > > Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Rene.
>> > >
>> > > I have attached two images, one showing what "normal" macOS
>> > > installation looks like, and what ours looks like.
>> > >
>> > > Our situation is not very far from normal and I would hesitate to call
>> > > it "manual" copying.  I do not know what they're talking about, but it
>> > > is not correct that you need to use a terminal or something to run
>> > > commands to install KiCad on macOS.
>> > >
>> > > When we surveyed users ~5 years ago when I revamped the macOS
>> > > packaging, users were overwhelmingly in favor of this method vs a pkg.
>> > > Pkgs have a bad reputation for doing bad stuff to your system--like
>> > > Zoom just did.
>> > >
>> > > There is also a README right when you open the DMG that explains step
>> > > by step what to do:
>> > >
>> > > """
>> > > To install KiCad, click and drag the two directory icons to the
>> > > targets pointed at by the arrows.
>> > >
>> > > After dropping kicad onto Application Support, you may be asked to
>> > > authenticate with an administrator username and password.  This
>> > > installs the support files for KiCad for all users on the system.
>> > >
>> > > KiCad is now installed!  Inside of /Applications will be a directory
>> > > called KiCad, and inside of that are all the programs in KiCad.  The
>> > > project manager is the one labeled kicad, and is probably where you
>> > > want to start.
>> > >
>> > > When you open the KiCad apps the first time, you must right-click on
>> > > them and select Open.  You only need to do this once.  You must open
>> > > KiCad first before opening the standalone apps, or else the standalone
>> > > apps won't be able to open up due to macOS quarantining.
>> > > """
>> > >
>> > > If someone wants to write a homebrew cask for using the mac DMG, I
>> > > suspect it would only be an hour or so total, and then users could
>> > > install with a single command in just a few minutes (however long it
>> > > takes to download the DMG).  Previously, another developer made a
>> > > homebrew recipe but it did not have a bottle, so it took hours to
>> > > install on a user's computers.  This was before homebrew casks which
>> > > should solve this problem.
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 9:35 AM Jon Evans <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > >> I believe these users are talking about the normal MacOS method of
>> installing software,
>> > >> which does typically involve copying files.
>> > >>
>> > >> Normally MacOS software is packaged as a disk image that is mounted
>> when you double click it.
>> > >>
>> > >> The mounted image then normally contains the software to be
>> installed, and shortcuts
>> > >> that are used as drop targets for a "drag and drop" copy.
>> > >>
>> > >> Most software only has one "file" (the .app file, which is actually
>> a directory)
>> > >> That file is copied to the Applications folder on the user's system.
>> > >>
>> > >> KiCad's installation also involves copying a second folder to a
>> privileged location (Application Support),
>> > >> so the user will be prompted for authentication when they do this
>> step.
>> > >>
>> > >> This part of the approach is not very common for commercial MacOS
>> software.
>> > >> Software that must install to privileged locations typically ships
>> as a binary installer with a wizard,
>> > >> more like what you would typically see on a Windows machine.
>> > >>
>> > >> I am not familiar enough with the MacOS packaging to know if there
>> is any potential for KiCad
>> > >> to have a single app file that just gets copied to Applications in
>> the future.
>> > >>
>> > >> If we want to do fancy things such as write-protecting certain parts,
>> > >> probably the best bet would be to build a MacOS installer wizard (a
>> PKG file).
>> > >> But, I don't know the details there either or if there are reasons
>> we cannot / should not.
>> > >>
>> > >> -Jon
>> > >>
>> > >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:22 AM Rene Pöschl <poeschlr@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>> > >>> Hi all but especially adam,
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> lately there where a few threads on the forum where installation on
>> Mac
>> > >>> came up. The users reported that they installed KiCad by manually
>> > >>> copying files around which sounded wrong to me. But as a lot of
>> users
>> > >>> seem to be under the impression that this is indeed the right way i
>> am
>> > >>> now starting to believe them.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> If these users are really correct then maybe this should be
>> documented
>> > >>> very clearly on our download page. Or if there is any option to
>> automate
>> > >>> this process (reducing human error) then maybe this would be the
>> better
>> > >>> way to go long term but until then it should still be documented
>> what
>> > >>> needs to be copied.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> One problem i see is if users can copy KiCad files then the libs
>> might
>> > >>> not be write protected which would be a problem as KiCad relies on
>> the
>> > >>> operating system write protection to avoid users modifying the
>> shipped
>> > >>> libraries.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> _______________________________________________
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>> > >>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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>> > >> _______________________________________________
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>> > >> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>> > >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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>>
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