lubuntu-brainstorming team mailing list archive

["Ali Linx (amjjawad)" <amjjawad@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hello Everyone,

Sorry for the late reply, I had no internet for 8 days.

On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 2:37 AM, Julien Lavergne
<julien.lavergne@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:

>
> 2013/11/23 Ali Linx (amjjawad) <amjjawad@xxxxxxxxx>
>
> Hi Julien, Rafael, Sergio and everyone,
>>
>> @Julien
>> I know that you have removed yourself from the brainstorming team and
>> while I fail to understand why, talking about it does not really matter
>> anymore. We need to move forward.
>>
>
> I quit the team to remove all the mail I got from it. Last time I tried to
> filter the mails from launchpad blueprints, that was a mess ... And just
> for the record, I created it just because phillw asked me to do the
> paperwork and the launchpad configuration, I never was a huge fan of this
> idea (see below).
>

Hi Julien,

Yes, I expected that you removed yourself to stop the emails but I didn't
know you were/are not a huge fan of this idea (Brainstorming Team) :) this
is news to me!

When I created the brainstorming team after Phill's Blessing -
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2013-July/004904.html - I
noticed that you created this 'project' area on launchpad:
https://launchpad.net/lubuntu-brainstorming

And, if I remember correctly, Phill was very excited about the idea and
because you were 'not' communicating with us and never replied that email,
I didn't really know whether you liked the idea or not but when I noticed
you did create: https://launchpad.net/lubuntu-brainstorming, I realized you
liked the idea or at least, this is what I understood but it seems I was
wrong :) I can't read minds :)



>
>
>> Having that said, kindly have a look at:
>>
>>
>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/lubuntu-brainstorming/+spec/brainstorming-team-lead
>>
>> It has all the details and the emails I sent.
>>
>> I'm CC'ing the Brainstorming Team.
>>
>> The current drivers of Lubuntu need to decide the future of Lubuntu
>> Brainstorming Team. With the current situation of Lubuntu, I can no longer
>> carry on and I have many reasons I prefer not to discuss right now because
>> this could make things even worse.
>>
>
> I'll be the bad guy here, but I don't think this project help us (read,
> the devs).
>

This Sub-Team has been created in July, 2013 :)
We are in December now. Lack of communication from your side with the whole
team has caused lots of confusion and still. One more is this. I am not
surprised about 'your' opinion, I did see that coming but I am very
disappointed if truth to be told :)

I am not going to argue with you about the 'importance' of Lubuntu
Brainstorming Team because that would be 'my opinion' vs 'yours' and I
don't think this is useful at the moment :)
However, and not to speak on behalf of anyone here, I guess the members of
Lubuntu Brainstorming Team can discuss that with you!



> Most of the ideas are ideas we already have. We just don't have the time
> to implement them properly.
>

The ideas are 'not' about development only ;)
It is about the 'whole' Lubuntu as a project and community. Have a quick
look, you will understand what I mean. IMHO, in less than a month, Lubuntu
Brainstorming Team has achieved an amazing job and we managed to, at least,
highlight several issues with the team and the project and we managed to
solve some as well. So, I fail to see how that is not helpful :)


> And send us reminders, mails, blueprints and stuff, doesn't help.
>

I respect your opinion but I disagree. If it is not helpful for you, it
might be for others.



> Previouly, we did this stuff on a single blueprint by team, with
> discussion inside. That's worked, more or less. This time I didn't do it
> for the devs team because 14.04 is a fix-bug-release only.
> Experimentations, new stuff should have be done on 13.10, not 14.04.
>

Again, Lubuntu Brainstorming Team is not only about 'development' but
everything.

See Xubuntu Team. They are highly organized. Have a look at Xubuntu as a
system. It is very stable. IMHO, Lubuntu needs to learn something from
Xubuntu Team.

See: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/


>
> Currently, we need people to implement them, but we don't have currently
> the infrastructure to train people to help us. So, also, any request for
> help for the devs team is useless unless the person is able to deal with
> problems himself (I think I already said that during an IRC meeting, but I
> also may have imagine it).
>

I went the other day to my sent items. I found that I have personally sent
you more than one email asking you clearly "what kind of skills and/or
experience you do need for a Developer to join and help?". I don't really
need to remind you that you have decided to ignore my emails :)

You complain about lack of manpower. At the same time, you don't allow us
to help. I have said it loudly, privately, and publicly, what are the
skills that we need? no one has answered. Neither you, nor Jonathan, nor
any developers involved with Lubuntu. I fail to understand the logic behind
this!



>
>
>> I know since 15-May-2012 you have stepped down as the leader of Lubuntu
>> but I am not sending you this because you are the leader, I am sending you
>> this because you, Rafael and Sergio are the current Team Leaders (Dev,
>> Artwork and Wiki) :) ... and ... in case you don't know, Lubuntu
>> Communications has no Team Leader/Driver but Ibere and David are taking
>> good care of the Social Media. Support Team is no longer exist:
>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/lubuntu-brainstorming/+spec/lubuntu-sub-teams
>>
>
> Please read again my answer about the teams. There are not supposed to be
> organizations + chief. They are supposed to be a group of people willing to
> help on a area. A team doesn't need a leader, and worse, doesn't need a
> self-appointed leader. A leader emerges naturally from a group, not the
> opposite.
>

Clearly, we have totally different visions and opinions for Project
Management. We clearly have different approaches.

For me, I think I have earned the title of 'Team Leader' for some Sub-Teams
of Lubuntu. These titles were not 'self-appointed', I can assure you that,
these are earned the hard way. I can't forget my two years of hard work, I
have put so much tears, sweat and blood into Lubuntu and everyone knows
that. So, not sure what you mean by 'self-appointed' leaders here :)

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad/Lubuntu-Team

Lubuntu, as a project, had no leader for more than a year now. Look at the
problems that Lubuntu has. If you think Lubuntu is doing great, then I have
no option but to respect your opinion but again, I'd strongly disagree.

And, to quote you:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2012-May/001516.html





*"Lubuntu may survive as a system, since people rely on it, and I
careenough to not abandon them. Lubuntu may not survive as a community,
asit demonstrates an incredible ability to torn apart itself. So be it.
Itdon't have enough willpower to maintain it anymore. Someone else
wouldmaybe have it, and will build something else."*

Not trying to be negative here but trying to be realistic and use the logic.
What I personally see is Lubuntu may not survive neither as a system nor as
a community if the current problems won't be solved. This is my humble
opinion.

And, just for the record, AFAIK,
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/SubTeamsare group of volunteers who
are helping on these dedicated area and indeed,
the driver or the leader of each team has NOT been self-appointed, AFAIK :)


>
>
>>
>> I have sent so many reminders and emails but no one seems interested to
>> step in. Just in case I need to re-remind you that, I do have many other
>> roles that I need to focus on.
>>
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad/AreasOfInvolvement
>>
>> So, please Julien, Rafael and Sergio, I appreciate if we could sit and
>> talk about the future of this area - Lubuntu Brainstorming Team.
>>
>> I refuse to remain the owner of the launchpad team and sit there doing
>> nothing. As long as I am the driver, I must do something and as I made it
>> extra clear, I have disengaged myself from Lubuntu Activities:
>>
>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2013-November/006233.html
>>
>> So, you see, I am not in a good position here. It is either I remain the
>> driver of that area and carry on with my usual activities or step down. I
>> have decided to step down.
>>
>
> Well, if this really bother you, just set me as the driver as a temporary
> solution, until people who want to work on this area organize themselves.
> I'll find a way to filter the mail if it's needed.
>

No Julien, it is not about I am bothered or stuff like that. It is about I
no longer able to carry on with any kind of activities for Lubuntu :) I
think I have had enough, burned out many times and I don't think I have
anything more to prove :)

So, once I hand over the ownership of the launchpad team and finish my last
4 tasks or at least make sure someone will carry on with these tasks, I
will no longer be engaged with any kind of activities.

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2013-November/006233.html



> Regards,
> Julien Lavergne
>

Good Luck with Lubuntu and hope that I can read some good news in the
future :)

And, thank you for what you have done for Lubuntu. I am glad that you are
still around. Keep up the good work. Good luck with 14.04 and I guess,
being a bugs-fixing release could be a good idea for an LTS release!

-- 
Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
Best Regards,
amjjawad <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad>
Areas of Involvement <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad/AreasOfInvolvement>
My Projects <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad/Projects>