openerp-community team mailing list archive

[Ovnicraft <ovnicraft@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:31 AM, Albert Cervera i Areny
<albert@xxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> **
>
> A Divendres, 29 de juliol de 2011 17:38:53, Fabien Pinckaers va escriure:
>
> > Albert,
>
> >
>
> > I was not talking about nan in my email. I have a lot of respect for nan
>
> > which is a very good company and that share a good open source vision.
>
> >
>
> > > So, guys, don't be confused by what's being said; some activists are
>
> > > motivated by something else than creating a strong product and
> community
>
> > > on OpenERP. We always hear the same people criticising, they do not
>
> > > represent the community.
>
> > > This "they want to fuck us with no real reason" is nonsense, at least
>
> > > if you include NaN in this.
>
> >
>
> > I do not. Why should I say that from nan, you contributed a lot and you
>
> > are fair on what you say.
>
> >
>
> > > I saw so much good contributors going not open when starting to talk
>
> > > about money (axelor, sharoon, pragtech, ...) That's why I am afraid to
>
> > > give a copyright to that kind of people that could lock OpenERP in the
>
> > > future. I fully agree with you in this. When starting to talk about
>
> > > money
>
> > >
>
> > >ome have tried to create closed developments, web interfaces or plugins
>
> > >or other applications. Even some have created a closed migration
> process!
>
> > >
>
> > > You're absolutely right: "we should be afraid to give a copyright to
>
> > > that kind of people that could lock OpenERP in the future."
>
> >
>
> > I know we disagree on that.
>
> >
>
> > But you can not compare selling a module and selling a migration service.
>
> > We are not in favor of selling modules, but selling services is good for
>
> > theproduct. Each migration requires us several hours of work. A migration
>
> > service is like a bugfix or a support service, it's several hours of work
>
> > per request. I am sure you will discover that doing a migration costs
>
> > always times and money: even with the promess of tryton, you will rarely
>
> > succeed to migrate without wasting time on it.
>
>
> Do they sell a module or a module + a guarantee? That would also be a
> service. Anyway, we also spend time solving bugs in OpenERP in each and
> every new install we make and that doesn't prevent us from working on it.
> Migration is a service but not the software used to acomplish it. The same
> way integration is a service but not OpenERP. Of course you're free to play
> with words, yet do not accuse others of being evil for doing the same
> OpenERP SA does. Or at least accuse OpenERP SA too ;-)
>
>
> > PS: may be I should explain what you call the sensorship on the mailing
>
> > list.
>
> > We think the partner list must be moderated as we had a lot of partners
>
> > that unsubscribed because they say there are too much noise on the list.
>
> > We have mainly directors in this list, they don't want to waste time on
>
> > unconstructive discussions. So we often apply moderation (not sensorship)
>
> > to keep the list focused on business topics. We moderate: if it's a
> support
>
> > question, technical issues on openerp, promotion of commercial offers,
>
> > complaints (about openerp or another partner). I would say that we
> moderate
>
> > about 30% of the mails.
>
> >
>
> > In order to avoid frustrations like you had, we have now an automated
>
> > message that explains the reasons why me moderate to the author.
>
>
> It's curious that you say that you added the automated message because of
> my frustration. Non of the authors of the three e-mails that were
> "moderated" was informed of that "moderation" *but* when It was me the one
> that sent me an e-mail out of the scope of the mailing list I was properly
> notified that the list was moderated (that happened just one or two days
> after those first e-mails). It's curious that authors of innocent e-mails
> like mine were notified whereas the authors of the other e-mails were not.
> Specially because just a few days before you had told me that you had
> received no complaints about OPW and partnership.
>
>
> > Our goal is not to censor the community as you say. They are others
>
> > channel that are not moderated like the community list and the forum.
>
> > We just want to use the right channel for the right purpose and avoid
>
> > to create noise for partners.
>
>
> Well, I don't think those e-mails were creating noise, where else shoud
> partner contracts and conditions be discussed otherwise? In the thread there
> were already some complaints about market regulation of training prices, for
> example. Well, just to let people judge for themselves, here's the e-mail
> Luis Falcon sent in the first place (sent with his permission, of course):
>
>
> Dear partners
>
> Hope this time this mail gets out... I sent it last week but it seems like
> it never reached the partners....
>
> Let me take this opportunity to set straight my point of view and position
> on the latest decisions that OpenERP is taking.
>
> Thymbra is TinyERP / OpenERP partner since 2005 (one of the oldest).
> Lately, I started to note trends that, IMO, are not compatible with the
> initial community philosophy. It is my right and duty to share them with
> you, so we can solved them as soon as possible, and keep on delivering the
> best Free ERP to the community.
>
> 1) Upgrade policies : The community is worried about the lack of
> information / documentation and scripts to do the migrations. They are
> right. We need NO LOCK-IN policies. I understand the OpenERP warranty
> support contract is an important business line / model for you, and that is
> perfect. But more important than that is the fact that companies that
> install OpenERP need to have the peace of mind of being able to upgrade
> their systems to the newer OpenERP releases. It would be up to them to
> contract OpenERP or a partner to do it for them. Some of them might not have
> the resources to do it, so, in that case, they should have the documentation
> and/or tools to carry the upgrade process by themselves.
>
> Just imagine that upgrading GNU/Linux or Postresql would be hard, or
> subjected to a support contract, OpenERP and many other great systems would
> not exist today. OpenERP users should feel confident that they can grow and
> keep the system updated. Of course, I'm talking about standard scenarios. If
> the user has problems with the update guide or the scripts, then he has the
> choice to ask the community and wait for an answer or get it solved directly
> from OpenERP if he/she has the support contract. Both are equally valid
> options.
>
> 2) CTP and market regulation issues : I am surprised on the latest
> announcement of imposing a lower / bottom price of 2000 €. First of all, in
> the CTP partnership clearly states that we, as partners, can put the price
> that we find appropriate. This is the logic approach, since each country has
> its own economic reality.You can not charge the same price in New York,
> Kampala, Buenos Aires or Sao Paulo . It's not real. Moreover, we already
> told the price to the interested parties, and we can not change it suddenly.
>
> This has nothing to do with unfair competition. On the contrary. We pay the
> 15% commission, we pay in advance the student packs and so on. Now leave it
> up to the partner to put the final price. This is free market and should not
> be regulated. You said in one the original contract "...the CTP can decide
> autonomously on the training session pricing for end customers."
>
> What can be expect next ? The imposition on the consulting services ??
> Please stick to the initial written document and don't change it
> arbitrarily. Otherwise it looks like you wake up one day and take a
> decision, announce it, and in the evening, change the whole thing again.
> Please don't forget that we, as partners, are putting a lot of time, effort
> and money, and are and integral part of the project.
>
> 3) Partner rankings : Let me paraphrase one of the sentences you had in the
> previous contracts, and that reflects what I and most of the original
> partners were looking for:
>
> "The main objective of this system is to set up a win-win relationship and
> to make our partnership more valuable for both partners and Tiny ERP through
> the measurement of each aspect of our collaboration.
>
> With this new system, a partner who write a customer success story may be
> equally or more valuated than a partner who has paid a Gold Partner
> Contract."
>
> Summing up
>
> 1) We need stable, long term, predictable policies that allow us to keep on
> investing in OpenERP partnership.
>
> 2) We need clear and open documentation, with related scripts that will
> enable the OpenERP upgradeprocess.
>
> .3) Please don't fall in the mistake of money as the only indicator. IMHO
> that would be a shorted-vision policy. I read an email talking about the
> eligibility of being gold partner or silver partner based on the generated
> revenues. This is a discriminating policy for the developing countries
> partners. Definitely money is far from being a good indicator of partnership
> quality / level. If you are like many of us, who believe in Free Software as
> a tool to leverage the developing countries, please don't use the revenue to
> rank the partners.
>

I am totally agree with partners selection, you can check in my country
(Ecuador)  how many partners are registered and check the participation from
them, i think OpenERP SA must get high quality to get a partner and just
dont take money payment.

This is an Open Source project and ERP business needs money, we can make
works both things.

Regards,

>  This is a constructive criticism, far from perfect, but well-intentioned
> and open to discussion, from someone who has been partner, supporting and
> contributing for many years and who wants the best future for OpenERP and
> its community.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Luis Falcon
>
> Founder and CEO
>
> Thymbra
>
>
> > It's a pity that those misunderstandings created frustrations between us.
>
> > I hope we will be able to collaborate efficiently again.
>
>
> --
>
> Albert Cervera i Areny
>
> http://www.NaN-tic.com
>
> Tel: +34 93 553 18 03
>
>
> http://twitter.com/albertnan
>
> http://www.nan-tic.com/blog
>
>
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>


-- 
Cristian Salamea
@ovnicraft