openerp-community team mailing list archive

[Carlos Liébana <carlosliebana@xxxxxxxxx>]

Dear Fabien,

I think the main problem by far regarding this topic is the difference
between "releasing some modules" and "developing open-source modules" [1]
for OpenERP. Actually we all are "releasing modules" exactly following the
guidelines you say: One customer has got one requirement --> we develop a
module to fullfill it or improve/change one current module. This means:
- Will we test it deeply with a "vanilla" OpenERP server? NO.
- Will we provide test scenarios to our modules? NO.
- Will we provide enough information regarding our modules? NO
- Will we provide future support, take care of bug reporting and so on? NO.

Of course there are some exceptions (NaN, Akretion, CamptoCamp modules...),
but I think I'm right in the vast majority of OpenERP modules. We all try
to improve, of course, I'm the first to recognize the problems inside my
company. As you point out, if somebody thinks that is going to make a lot
of money selling closed modules as they are actually being released, I
think they should open their eyes.

As services companies in the complicated ERP world, I believe more in one
model where the partner/integrator provides services regarding their
released modules (or better, their open-source modules ;D ) as we're doing
with Akretion recently with their Prestashop-OpenERP connect. This means
it's not only a B2C service model but also a B2B service model between us,
the integrators. And this is something with a wide improvemente because of:
- We just have the apps.openerp.com portal, that's getting a junk box as it
was the extra addons in the past. Also, I see some race to appear as "Top
contributor" with stupid modules, but that's another discussion.
- The small interaction and communication between us, the integrators of
OpenERP. I don't say "partner", because we are not anymore... but that's
another discussion too.

And this has not to be for free: I'll pay for some training or demo
regarding a lot of things. For example:
- Can somebody explain for a non developer like me the new community
branches world I should live with now?
- I'll like to know a lot more of the banking addons branch. Has it sense
here in Spain? Could we improve some of our localizations modules?
- CamptoCamp webkit reporting tool. Is it better than the Aeroo reports
we're using right now?
- CamptoCamp financial reports. Can they replace the Spanish official
reports?
- OpenERP upgrade branch, how will it take to my company to migrate one of
ours customers database?
- Advance project management modules, are somebody using them? What modules
are trustable?
- Or the intrastat modules, as Normal pointed us above.

So, is it time for a real community partner portal? In Wordpress then ;) ?

[1] This is a good read about the differences:
http://coding.smashingmagazine.com/2013/01/03/starting-open-source-project/#more-123528



-- 
--------------------------

*CARLOS LIÉBANA ANERO*
*Director* | factorlibre.com
+34 635 86 67 92
@carlosliebana


2013/2/12 Fabien Pinckaers <fp@xxxxxxxxxxx>

> On 02/11/2013 03:57 PM, Alexandre Bairos wrote:
> > I think i missed the point. Wordpress is
> > GPL http://wordpress.org/about/gpl/  and has one of the most successful
> > marketplaces around it, things like themeforest.com
> > <http://themeforest.com> , which is a killer app, with lots of payed
> > themes available and services around it.
>
> Hello,
>
>
> 1/ Ability to finance developments by selling modules
>
> The difference between Wordpress and OpenERP is the mass of users on
> these two applications. Due to its ERP nature, OpenERP will always have
> less users than a good open source CMS:
>   http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=openerp,wordpress
>
> So, the potential to become profitable by selling modules with OpenERP
> is highly reduced compared to Wordpress. As the open source nature of
> OpenERP creates a strong incentive to shrink prices, it's nearly
> impossible to cover development costs by selling modules. --> Just
> imagine that someone can easily take the modules you sell at 300 EUR and
> sell them at 1 EUR, or distribute them for free.
>
> We tried in the past, and we failed. Those revenues will always be
> significantly lower than what you can do by selling services.
>
>
> 2/ Strong incentive of having open source modules
>
> The other difference between Wordpress and OpenERP is that the value or
> quality of Wordpress do not increase significantly with each module.
>
> As OpenERP modules are strongly integrated, things are very different.
> With OpenERP, a module can increase the value of all other modules which
> is one of the reason of the success of OpenERP. (every one benefit from
> the new kanban view, the chatter feature, or the DMS, no matter if you
> use CRM, project, or accounting).
>
> As an example, modules like a "Spanish localisation" or "Open Chatter"
> create a strong value for customers whatever the module they use. If
> those features were not open source, OpenERP could never have grown like
> we did in the past years.
>
> You can not do business with OpenERP in specific countries if the
> localisation is not open source. You can still do business with
> wordpress if not all the themes are open source.
>
>
> 3/ Our partner network is a "service company" network, not a network of
> software publishers companies
>
> Nearly all community modules of OpenERP have been developed for, and
> financed by, specific customers. They work well for the customer but are
> far from being usable by the mass, out-of-the-box.
>
> If we allow partners to resell their modules, they will start selling
> modules they developed for others customers. We know these modules will
> not fit most of the needs in terms of functional scope, quality,
> documentation, etc.
>
> So, not only the partner will be frustrated because the revenue are
> probably much lower than what they would have expected, but also the
> customer will be frustrated because the module does not fit it's need.
> That's something we want to avoid.
>
> Moreover, some modules on OpenERP are so complex (countries
> localisation, magento interface, ...) that they require several months
> of developments and feedback of hundreds contributors in order to become
> mature.
>
> As an example, I do not think that a single company would be able to
> develop a localisation alone, without having feedback and contributions.
>
>
> This is strongly related to the complex nature of an ERP and I guess
> Wordpress does not have these issues. But this complexity is also the
> reason why customers are willing to pay much more to implement OpenERP
> than Wordpress; OpenERP solves their complex problems, so it's highly
> valuable.
>
>
> 4/ Service market
>
> I followed, trained, helped to develop hundreds of partners. We are now
> convinced that you will succeed if you understand that the ERP market is
> a service market. Focus on getting thousands of EURO from implementing
> OpenERP, not on hundreds of EURO from selling modules.
>
> Most of the partners that tried to generate revenues by selling modules
> failed. We also tried it a few years ago (shared funding modules) and we
> failed too. The revenue stream was not good enough to sustain
> development and the maintenance of such modules.
>
> More over, most of these paid modules are deprecated now, so it's a very
> bad service for the customer, which makes me think it's not scalable.
>
> Think about it: who are most successfull OpenERP partners you know? You
> will notice they are also the ones that understood this model perfectly.
>
>
>
> As Olivier said, I am convinced it's better for the OpenERP eco-system
> to force having all modules respect the AGPL licence. If we open the
> door to "paid modules", this would be the start of a decreasing of the
> strong growth we have now.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Fabien
> OpenERP Founder
>
>
> > On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Christophe Hanon <chanon@xxxxxxxxx
> > <mailto:chanon@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >
> >     It means for me what it means for many licences authors : software
> >     is distributed with the source code. As explained for example in
> >      GPL, AGP licences.____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     Kind regards____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     Christophe____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     *From:*Alberto BARRIONUEVO [mailto:abarrio@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >     <mailto:abarrio@xxxxxxxxxxx>]
> >     *Sent:* 07 February 2013 10:49
> >     *To:* Christophe Hanon
> >     *Cc:* Arun Venkat; Luc De Meyer; 'Bertrand Hanot'; 'Nabil Majoul';
> >     'Serpent Consulting Services'; openerp-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >     <mailto:openerp-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Partners@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >     *Subject:* Re: OpenERP: [Openerp-community] Partners Collaboration
> >     Model____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >     Hi Christophe,
> >
> >     El 06/02/13 12:17, Christophe Hanon escribió: ____
> >
> >      So I think more quality modules will be published the day
> >     publishers can get a minimal fee for their code.____
> >
> >     This is not incompatible with open-source – see the joomla
> >     extensions web site. Free and commercial are equally published but
> >     all in open-source.  ____
> >
> >     What means "open-source" for you?
> >
> >     ____
> >
> >     -- ____
> >
> >     Alberto Barrionuevo, Director____
> >
> >     Grupo OPENTIA____
> >
> >     OpenERP Partners____
> >
> >     T (+34) 918 38 38 58 <tel:%28%2B34%29%20918%2038%2038%2058>____
> >
> >     F (+34) 944 34 00 77 <tel:%28%2B34%29%20944%2034%2000%2077>____
> >
> >     __ __
> >
> >                OPENTIA____
> >
> >     Ingeniería Informática en Abierto____
> >
> >             www.opentia.com <http://www.opentia.com>____
> >
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
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>
> --
> Fabien Pinckaers
> CEO OpenERP
> Chaussée de Namur 40
> B-1367 Grand-Rosière
> Belgium
> Phone: +32.81.81.37.00
> Fax: +32.81.73.35.01
> Web: http://openerp.com
>
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