openerp-community team mailing list archive

[Marcelo Bello <marcelo.bello@xxxxxxxxx>]

Raphael, I sent that email to add a perspective of one end-user, I think
this kind of discussion is improved if some end-users can jump in and tell
how they see the situation.

    I certainly do not have the whole picture, I have never touched a
single line of code in OERP and I do not know all the news. I spoke what is
my perception and you know, marketers like to say that perception is
reality.

    I am not pretending I am a big client or that I have potential to
become one. Just really described the picture I formed in my mind (wrong or
not) about OERP and its ecosystem, maybe that can be enlightening to
someone.

    And I did think that by initially giving the contract to an OpenERP
partner (active at the time) I was indeed contributing back to the
community, I think you can relate to why someone would reason in that way,
can't you?

    Raphael, you always assume people do not hire Akretion in Brazil
because they want the cheapest service available. You say a lot about how
companies in Brazil do not have criteria, decision makers do not value
expertise, etc... Have you ever stopped to think that maybe they actually
can make sound decisions but it is very difficult to hire someone that
writes (and maybe behaves?) like you do? I know you may be offended by this
I just hope you will be able to hear it and accept it as a feedback,
because the way you express yourself on this forum, on the forum of the
Brazilian localization (and even on that long discussion about the contact
model screw-up) really makes a poor image of you, at least to my eyes. I am
sure you have all the hard skills, but the soft skills are just as
important when you want to make a sale and to manage a project. (I know you
are good and you have a lot to contribute with your opinions, you could
just choose a softer language and show more respect to other people)

    For the record, the proposal I got from Proge back in February 2013 was
about 50% higher than what Akretion wanted to charge, so I actually chose
the more expensive option. Your behavior on the mailing lists was a big
factor in deciding in favor of Proge, a decision I regret for sure. The
second time I went shopping, Akretion did not even reply to my email. I
guess it is always easier to put the blame on the prostitution of the
market, the bad decision makers, etc but I can tell you there is a large
market in Brazil for a serious player but it will have to show a high level
of professionalism at all levels, even on the public mail lists.

     Sorry for going off-topic.

Best regards,

Marcelo


On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 1:43 AM, Raphael Valyi <rvalyi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hello Marcello,
>
> I'll just enlight you with a few comments if you permit:
>
> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 10:22 PM, Marcelo Bello <marcelo.bello@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>
>> Since this is being discussed in the community list I feel encouraged to
>> participate as an end-user.
>>
>>     Some context about me: In February 2013 I entered into a contract
>> with an OpenERP partner in Brazil called Proge to implement OpenERP for my
>> company. Long story short, Proge took most of the money and never delivered
>> a working system, we are now going to court to try to get our money back.
>> Very very disturbing.
>>
>
> I can only mention they are the only ex partner we didn't train. In fact
> OpenERP SA was even planing to make them certified training partners by
> 2011 despite they made an exclusive deal (premium CTP) with us 6 months
> earlier when they didn't like we were telling a few things publicly about
> their attempts to unilaterally change the license from AGPL to AGPL +
> private use while they received contributions from all the community for
> years and got no CLA nor written permission to do so; the unilateral move
> who sent a few folks to Tryton.
>
> That wasn't exactly rewarding our 2 years of tireless free work to build
> the Brazilian localization while these guys did nothing at that time but a
> poor copy our work and removed the copyright from it to fake they were a
> very active project member:
>
> https://github.com/proge/openerp-pt_br/commit/23fe26726836e58251f82cc17d011cb06135f7a6 (copy
> from mine to avoid story to be rewritten).
> After we protested at the highest levels about all that, it finally didn't
> happen. So I mean things could have been worse than what you mention.
>
> But when you know that, you understand better that I didn't always have
> kind words for everybody at OpenERP SA or that company you mentioned. A
> negotiation is what you can bring and what you can take. As a small startup
> we didn't had much to bring in term of money, so eventually I had my
> asshole twitter moments to keep the negotiation going. I hope this is clear
> now and there is no need to play that little game again.
>
> IMHO in open source there is an ethic to enforce: you cannot tell you are
> in favor of open source and give advantage to people not making the R&D
> investments but plagiarizing the work shamelessly and then trying to make
> believe they authored the stuff by investing on marketing what they just
> saved on R&D. If everybody were doing that, no R&D would be done, open
> source wouldn't exist. R&D has a cost, you should help people assuming it,
> not the parasites of the system.
>
> I will tell this is over now for us, but may be it helps you understanding
> better.
>
> Quite disturbing, for us...
>
>
>>  I insisted on OpenERP and now have hired a different company
>> (non-partner) to setup OpenERP for me (Akretion was too busy to help us).
>>
>
> In fact it's the situation with all the few people who invested so much on
> OpenERP that they eventually can make it work for a given company.
>
> The fact that only people who invested hugely on OpenERP are able to make
> it work as an ERP largely explains why the business model doesn't scale yet
> (it will reach a scaling point only when it will be more mature, with less
> bugs en eventually more complete out of the box; eventually v8 is coming
> close). Because they cannot hire (or very slowly) and people here for the
> short term money will soon understand it is not quite like that.
> This is not just me telling it
> http://people.via.ecp.fr/~alexis/openerp/#conseils-integrateur
>
>
>> I have OpenERP in production for about 4 weeks now. I have chosen not to
>> get an enterprise contract for now.
>>
>>      What I have learned about the OpenERP ecosystem:
>>
>> 1. Anyone can buy the Partner "status", a lot of those partners have no
>> real capability to deliver a good job, so it is in no way a "quality seal";
>>
>
> Indeed, we always voiced against that and we largely predicted and warned
> that stories like yours would happen considering there was no quality
> control at all.
> Worse than that, voicing against these issues, slowed down our
> development...
>
> But I will tell you. The guys you initially tried your project weren't the
> worse by far from a tech/functionnal PoV.
> Unfortunately we had to "train" (as if one week of training would turn any
> noob to an ERP+open source expert) "partners" which were much worse.
>
> Don't make me tell what I didn't tell: there are also very of valuable
> partners or ex-partners in Brazil, I will even mention: ThinkOpen, Nitens,
> VectorX... now interestingly none of these 3 companies are OpenERP partners
> here anymore. I commented about that in an other email before that
> unfortunately, our life are partner isn't that easy (we also thought about
> banging the door several times).
>
> In fact, the terrible thing is: smart guys soon spot that this isn't going
> to be easy and eventually they stay away from the partnership fee here or
> they don't work full time on OpenERP (take Fabio Negrini, who is a SAP
> consultant in the local list) and sadly,by contrast, the most under
> prepared guys don't anticipate a shit about how hard this is going to be
> and partner happily if they have money for this. I complained several times
> to Fabien Pinckaers, Marc Laporte and Fabrice Henrion we had this terribly
> paradoxical situation here... As for us, we did 95% of the localization
> effort, bringing OpenERP to a level of localization that took millions for
> SAP to achieve, so we won't kill our investment.
>
> Marcello, the last partner we trained in Brazil claimed they had the best
> "no all" on their blog (for know all).
> I mean FUCK! the guys slept at the back of the room during most of the
> training. I reported that to OpenERP SA but it was too late.
>
> We are working with Nitens on a large project in Sao Paulo, so people
> cannot accuse us of not partnering. We do partner, but people have to come
> to us with acceptable deals, not just trying to pump years of R&D knowledge
> from us to try to pass over us later as so many tried so far.
> We partnered with CampToCamp or here openly. In fact we partner if the
> guys have something valuable to bring on the table. Sounds fair, no?
>
>
>>  2. OpenERP SA is very slow to fix / merge bugs, there are thousands of
>> open bugs in the queue; (Isn't part of the Enterprise Contract the promise
>> that bugs will be fixed quickly? With such a huge list of open bugs how can
>> I believe in that claim?)
>> 3. With so many bugs yet to be fixed, one is better of relying on the OCB
>> or RS-OCB repositories rather than the official one;
>>
>
> Not everybody want to do everything for free. You Marcello Bello, what are
> you doing for free everyday for us all?
>
> OpenERP SA has a certain amount of resource to dedicate to the project, so
> are able to do a few other entities, such as the guys working on OCB. All
> the fixes done in OCB are also proposed for merging in the official branch,
> so it's not like people were trying to fork OpenERP.
>
>
>> 4. The Enterprise Contract is good for migration work from version to
>> version BUT it won't cover the localization code (which in Brazil is huge);
>>
>
> This isn't just in Brazil, even in the most mature market, France, things
> aren't as easy as you may believe:
> http://people.via.ecp.fr/~alexis/openerp/
> (it's a bit better now though)
>
>
>>  5. OpenERP takes a huge amount of effort to setup and actually make
>> work, the documentation is very high-level to be useful, it does require
>> quite a bit of customization so in the end the company I hired is the one I
>> depend on and the ones I must trust (not OpenERP SA);
>> 6. The most important functionality (for me at least) landing on OpenERP
>> are now developed by partners and not OpenERP SA:
>>
>
> This has always been like that: OpenERP SA only make the core (200 modules
> out of more than 1000); but the world is huge and fortunately may people
> are contributing to the ecosystem.
> The first connectors were also made by partners (including us), everything
> was smaller but proportions remained the same I believe.
>
>
>> new Magento connector and the new WMS.
>>
>
> The new WMS got an eye from CampToCamp I believe, but it's made by OpenERP
> SA though and it's going to be awesome.
>
>
>> OpenERP SA is engaged in the development of some features that in my view
>> are disconnected from the reality and they should really become more
>> pragmatic;
>>
>>      I do think OpenERP SA should be getting some cash out of me, the ERP
>> is nice and I believe a good job must be compensated.
>>
>
> You say that but you don't want to buy an Enterprise contract, you
> couldn't wait the availability of a partner paying something to OpenERP
> SA...
> You even made the provocation to come to the list to offer 250 USD to
> implement electronic invoicing SOAP transmission when the amount of work to
> get it done are worth dozen of thousands of USD atop of the localization
> work already worth hundred of thousands USD of work. So I mean, I assume
> you are all joking, right?
> Stop joking please. BTW we and a few folks did most of that work since
> then but without the need to prostitute the thing to these levels.
>
>
>> This is my recommendation on how to improve the situation for OpenERP SA,
>> from the point of view of an end-user:
>>
>> 1. Make public the information about how many active Enterprise Contracts
>> each partner has.
>>
>
> It is on the partner page unless the customer doesn't want to be mentioned
> (we have a few ones missing right now because of paperwork). Now honestly
> there are valuable partners that don't sell so may Enterprise contracts and
> some who start fast good at sales and bad at delivering value, so I advise
> you take a step back. In fact this was a bit the topic of this thread.
>
>
>> This will make your partners want to sell those contracts to look good in
>> their markets. People like me that need a new ERP system really need this
>> type of information to make sound purchase decisions. Look what happened to
>> me when I chose a bad OpenERP partner. Hence, the silver/gold/platinum
>> etc... should depend ONLY on that number
>>
>
> It is mostly the case. We aren't gold just because I always have kind
> words for OpenERP SA ;-)
>
>
>> (anyone could still become a partner by paying, but to be
>> silver/gold/whatever one would need to have experience and a nice number of
>> active contracts);
>>
>
> The only twist was that some partners could buy training seats and that
> money was taking into account.
>
> So eventually the less skilled guys needing more training would appear
> better than the guys able to figure out what to do on their own. We had to
> protest several times that guys that would take the CTP course with us
> would eventually get out with a higher level than us who trained them. That
> didn't happen fortunately, but I mean some people weren't shock by this
> until we protested again.
>
> Eventually the certification will dissipate these issues.
> Now this doesn't seem very transparent so far (we were pressured to pass
> it, for instance in Brazil only Akretion was pressure to do the test I
> believe (and I got it with 89/100 which is the best score from Americas so
> far I believe (in fact I heard about nobody getting more even elsewhere),
> so you see Marcello , if only Akretion seems able to work with OpenERP in
> Brazil may be this isn't just by accident), why were the other guys
> exonerated from it? (it costed us 400 USD+preparation), we still don't have
> figure who passed etc..)
>
> But again you have to take a step back. With open source we have the
> chance that almost everything people do is in the open (at least the good
> ones). I mean, go and crawl the fucking Github and Launchpad accounts the
> guy you want to work with, make sure these aren't poor imitations...
> get educated to have criteria when selecting a company to work with open
> source.
>
> This is something small companies aren't learnt to in Brazil and this is
> sad. So many time we were contacted by USA companies without us doing any
> marketing while in Brazil many SMB's would believe guys copying our repo
> are more recommendable than the initial authors, or that we are too far
> because we aren't just in their city. At this level, this isn't like if
> people had the choice you know...
> Put that in you mind: OpenERP is still hard no matter the marketing image
> say. It's not a commodity. It will eventually become one in a few years,
> but this is not one yet, so you have to do what it take to get it working
> in your company, there is no free lunch yet.
>
> Marcello, people come to us, thinking they can negociate vs the kind of
> guys you initially worked or much worse. But unfortunately is still an
> investment on our side and no, there is no such a fucking negociation yet,
> analyse better the situation and come with serious deals or don't complain
> that somebody will always do it cheaper.
> http://brianlangis.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/cheaper.jpg
>
>
>>
>> 2. Start closing those bugs PLEASE! What confidence do I have in OpenERP
>> SA if you let so many bugs stay open for so long despite all partners
>> complaining about it so much (to the point a OCB repository now exists);
>>
>
> Open source is a risk because entities are small and have limited
> resources compared to the proprietary world. But you have to balance that
> risk with proprietary risk (fusion acquisition, impossibility to customize,
> forced fees, hidden costs..)
>
> At the end of the day, it really boils down if you have tech criteria to
> make a choice or if on on the contrary, the cocoon marketting of the
> proprietary world makes you believe it is safer.
>
>
>
>> 3. Take better care of your reputation:
>> - The contact / partner_id thing was a screw up, why fight so hard with
>> your partners, apparently with no technical merit? (and why not say sorry,
>> when sorry is due?)
>>
>
> I think I commented enough on that one ;-)
>
>
>> - Why aren't you including the partners in these decisions when they are
>> so important to you?
>> - Why are you okay with so many open bugs? Don't you understand that each
>> bug I find on my setup of OpenERP, my confidence in the system is
>> significantly diminished? And don't you understand that the #1 attribute of
>> an ERP is reliability?
>>
>
> This is because you believe you are an important customer. But honestly,
> if you don't pay anything to people part of the ecosystem, well chances are
> you aren't.
>
> But mostly, you have to understand that OpenERP has some Venture Capital
> in it (3-4 millions euros injected in 2010, then a mysterious round B
> announced with bells at Bloomberg but mysterious since then despite obvious
> marketing calls to investors).
>
> That means that the customer of tomorrow is more important than you;
> because the money investors will put on the table for the customer of
> tomorrow is larger than the money you or even a real paying customer will
> bring right now.
> This means that trade off are made, reliability is sometimes sacrificed
> for the conquest of new potential market shares, hence the CMS fireworks
> for instance.
> Not entirely justifying the thing, but explaining.
>
> But this isn't just at the OpenERP SA level. Eventually when you got a
> "too busy" answer from us, it was the same: we are also very busy making
> R&D for tomorrow and eventually this is more important than potential
> customer X at what they are ready to put on the table.
>
>
>
>> - Why do you let the OCB repository be ahead of the official one?
>> Shouldn't you be the reference as far a OpenERP code repository goes?
>>
> - Why are you developing a CMS system instead of fixing those bugs? Don't
>> you understand that you look fool trying to sell features like that, at
>> least at this stage? Are you really going to recommend your clients to
>> expose their ERP to the web so they can use the CMS? Will that be a
>> responsible recommendation given the security implications and the huge
>> attack surface an ERP system has (and the nice data a hacker can get as a
>> compensation)?
>>
>
> Commented on that one too.
>
>>
>> 4. Start making OpenERP feel like a mature piece of software:
>> - Take unit tests seriously;
>>
>
> It's getting much much better compared to the past.
>
>
>> - Take bug fixing seriously;
>>
>
> In fact, despite some bugs stay open for long, I think OpenERP SA is
> fixing now more bugs than ever.
> Before they had SaaS customers they didn't really had incentives to fix
> all bugs... But now, instead of selling support, their own interest is
> really that the thing works, so this is getting much better.
>
>
>> - Do stable releases only when the code is stable;
>> - Only change your APIs when absolutely necessary (so that modules can
>> become mature pieces of software);
>>
>
> Honestly, you would have illusions if you don't think it's necessary.
> Despite being the best available open source option, 4 years ago, OpenERP
> was far from being so professional. Many things were released with no
> upfront quality and it really needs these API breakage iterations now to
> fix things. And yes this has again a cost.
>
>
>> - Don't let broken things stay broken (e.g. App/Module store, when a
>> module can interfere with each other because of on_change mess & other
>> issues);
>>
>> 5. Stop making the Enterprise Contract about migrations. It gives you the
>> wrong incentives. As a client I do not want to have big migrations every
>> 12-18 months. I want to do it every 36-48 months if at all.
>>
>
> I agree 100%
> In fact customers with few customizations can be migrated at every
> version. But larger companies with customizations cannot, because the
> process costs to much time and money.
> Now, it still normal that OpenERP release soon. You know, this is an open
> world, if they decided next release would only be in 3 years, there would
> be a fork making a release every 18 months.
> And considering they are fueled as much by existing customers than by
> potential customers, they cannot afford not trying to conquer the new
> markets with these new releases. Now, while they should release often, they
> should also make it straight forward to migrate from two versions.
>
>
>> 6. Take full control of your software and its important pieces (selected
>> modules and the localizations).
>>
>
> Sorry but this is a strange request. This is open source. In open source
> some people will always invent extensions you didn't even think of. If
> Akretion didn't made the localization, no company would use OpenERP in
> Brazil yet, end of the story. Now if people X extrapolated that he will be
> able to do what we do without assuming similar level of investment, he is
> probably wrong and I cannot do anything about it (aside from warning,
> something we do and always did).
>
> There is no reason somebody take control of what we did, no more than say
> us taking control of OpenERP. So I would say this is a bit normal and IMHO
> this is you who is not really ready to work with complex open source
> projects which are always modular and multi-polar.
>
> And if somebody, you or OpenERP SA or any integrator you choose wants to
> report us a bug or send us a merge proposal, it's always welcome. So the
> project is open and has always been.
> I don't accept critics without attempts to make things better.
>
>
>> The official repository should be the reference, not the OCB one.
>>
>
> Who said OCB is the reference?. For me OCB is the reference, but nothing
> forces branch X or Y to be the references for you or somebody else
> Really, if you look at complex open source projects, such as the Linux
> Kernel, there are several "references" of it depending on the use case.
> Tell Redhat to use the Kernel of Android to see...
>
> Again this boils down to your psychological comfort zone. OpenERP is not
> simple. ERP aren't simples. You should know that usually a foreigner ERP
> never enter significantly on the Brazilian market, right? Why that despite
> as the hundreds of million of investment? IMHO you should just thank god or
> whatever that somebody adapted it to a point at least some companies are
> able to use it.
>
>  You should know what happens with each localization, how can you develop
> the core if you have no clue about the need of each localization? I like
> the idea of OpenERP certifying each localization.
>
> And all that for free right?
> Try to put a few figures on a paper. Imagine n Marcello Bello all giving
> the same level of financial support and see how much is left to invest on
> localization X.
> So, it's a multi-polar iterative process whether you like it or not.
>
>
>>
>> 7. Find incentives for partners to share more with each other.
>>
>
> There we are!
> This is a bit the "god father" Nhomar was talking about in a previous
> mail. I can already hear the sound track in my mind, not sure that will end
> all right ;-)
>
> That wasn't exactly the logic in place as I explained unfortunately. A few
> examples:
>
>    - we had to train companies that potentially would be ranked higher
>    than the teacher after the training while we would share knowledge made of
>    years of investment, for very little it didn't happen.
>    - we are financially competing with companies not investing a cent on
>    the localization and the ecosystem in general but taking everything for
>    free from us. And just like the example I gave with the training program,
>    we were never comfortable that our R&D investment would be respected by
>    OpenERP SA.
>    - for OpenERP SA, only money passed to them is taken into account. At
>    Akretion we are a small companies and we aren't really keen to compete with
>    companies much larger than us unless fair deals are made to protect our
>    investments. So far I have seen very little creativity to propose such
>    deals. The work we invested on the localization is worth several hundreds
>    of thousand USD at the bare minimum. As far as company making a check of
>    20k USD can pass in front of us in the ranking, we won't be really
>    welcoming them. Is that so much shocking? Why did these companies choose
>    not making the investment when they had the opportunity to do so? open
>    source doesn't mean there should be guys working free for others no.
>    - bare in mind that OpenERP SA is not helping us in any way for doing
>    the localization. They require from us exactly what they require from the
>    partners not investing a cent on the project. How incentive is that?
>    - count Vauxoo/Nhomar out and consider how many small companies
>    similar to Akretion have got their early investments into OpenERP respected
>    by OpenERP SA later on, say 3 years later. Not so many. So it's not like
>    the deals are fair enough to incentive us to share our knowledge openly
>    with anybody...
>
> For 2 years we have been asking OpenERP SA one thing: if we Akretion help
> a partner to success on some local project, when they will sell an
> Enterprise contract, can this contract be half on our partnership target
> account?
> 2 years!
> Because imagine, we help partner X do your project, the sell an Enterprise
> contract to you and they get ranked better than us just because we were
> keen enough to help them?
> I mean: FUCK IT!!!!
>
> So the good news is after 2 years, after so many had a similar story as
> you, after so many collateral victims, they finally said yes like 3 months
> ago...
> Finally.
> Now we are busy again, but eventually it will make things easier in the
> future.
>
>
> The situation with the trainings:
>
> The good:
> A point that changed recently: till now, when we were training a partner,
> we would make only 1000 USD from the 5 days training with him. Take out the
> cost of the training (room, travel) and you see that wasn't a fear deal to
> train a potential competitor.
> Marcello, in Brazil, 30% of the "partners" we trained have been trying to
> take over us later and have been making non published localizations such as:
> http://www.erpintegra.com.br/
> How fair was that deal for us??
> FUCK IT!!!!
>
> Fortunately that has just been changed.
>
> Now the bad:
> So since 3 months ago, partners are required to pass the new certification
> (strange nobody else had to do it in Brazil), and because new partners
> would complain after us if they aren't well prepared to the certification
> we had to remove the localization from the 5 days, something OpenERP SA
> insisted on since several years!
> I said we can make extra training, but given the marketing that doesn't
> value partner expertise to much, not enough people are ready to make such
> an investment. So we cannot invest in producing a localization training for
> just 3 guys for a version that will be over in a few months.
> That means, that the new guys will be partners without knowing a shit
> about the localization.
> That will make new victims like you for sure.
>
> You cannot imagine how much we fought hard against that certification
> schedule, explaining that it would be totally pointless here in Brazil and
> that being pragmatic on the training content was so much more important
>
> All these fights just brought us bad relationships with OpenERP SA and we
> have not being heard.
>
> So I think it's important I communicate these pieces of information so
> your or some other people understand better why things are the way they are.
>
>
>
>> At least in Brazil all partners are hiding their specific changes to the
>> localization from each other, there is an official repository for the
>> localization but a lot is hidden away. There should exist some form of
>> oversight from OpenERP SA.
>>
>
> I cannot let you tell this.
>
> 95% of the work is done by Akretion as you can measure it from
> https://github.com/openerpbrasil/l10n_br_core
> if you have no shit in the eyes (develop branch is even more us), see
> commits last week:
> https://github.com/openerpbrasil/l10n_br_core/tree/develop
> As explained on the list, we try to work closely to the gitflow de facto
> standard:
> http://nvie.com/posts/a-successful-git-branching-model/
>
> *some* wannabee partners or wannabee integrators don't share anything as I
> pointed here http://www.erpintegra.com.br/
>
> But with the localization we publish, we are making a dozen of companies
> run just fine and I believe a few third parties are making may be another
> dozen do it too.
>
>
> Now, because we believe in open source, we play by the rules and publish
> the code.
> Now, don't ask us to help parasites to take over us by giving them free
> training. And even with training, they wouldn't be us either, with the same
> level of expertise and determination.
>
> Instead you have to re-think, how you Marcello Bello who gave money to
> guys not participating to the eco-system, how you did the wrong job of
> increasing the threat toward the guys doing open source and how
> consequently we had to dribble these guys on the documentation part to
> ensure we wouldn't loose the leadership.
> Put this in your head: people who write open source don't always do it to
> be victims.
>
> That is amazing, because of the marking people think implementing OpenERP
> is not such a challenge. Then they ask us who brought our piece of work to
> work more free for them and transfer to them all the required knowledge.
> But look, for instance a way to electronically send an invoice i Brazil is
> using Pysped:
> https://github.com/aricaldeira/PySPED
> This is amazing, everybody look at what Akretion does with envy (without
> considering at what cost we manage to do it), but nobody is complaining
> that Pysped is so poorly documented for instance or that OpenERP SA would
> certify them.
> I mean this reveals a few limits of these complaints.
>
>
> Final words: IMHO you are still doing it wrong and you will eventually
> take years to understand it.
>
>
> Regards and good luck still.
>
>
> --
> Raphaël Valyi
> Founder and consultant
> http://twitter.com/rvalyi <http://twitter.com/#!/rvalyi>
> +55 21 2516 2954
> www.akretion.com
>
>
>
>