openerp-community team mailing list archive

[Houssine BAKKALI <houssine.bakkali@xxxxxxxxx>]

The thing I just figured out is that the weed brought by the venture
capitalists was of a very high quality!

You should at least share it with us! Cause we're not on the same trip!
On May 19, 2014 7:30 PM, "Fabien Pinckaers" <fp@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>
>
> On 05/19/2014 02:54 PM, TeMPO Consulting wrote:
> > Hello Fabien
> >
> > after attending two webminars and reading all the mail related to
> > pricing I still have two major questions
> >
> >  1. are the prices listed at https://www.odoo.com/page/pricing related
> >     to the SaaS offer or to Odoo Enterprise, or both ?
>
> Both. We want to keep the same price/contract in order to not create
> pricing competition between both. It also allows people to switch from
> saas to on-premise without having to change their contracts.
>
> >  2. if they also apply to Odoo Enterprise what is the SLA provided by
> >     the "Community Support" ?
>
> What do you mean by community support?
>
>
> >
> > many thanks for your reply.
> >
> > Maurice MORETTI
> >
> >>> Basic math for a client with 20 users and 5 apps for 24 months:
> >>>   * 20 users x 5 apps x 24 months x $15 = $36,000
> >>>   * Partner commission for 24 months (~50%)= $18,000
> >> No, this is a common usecase:
> >>
> >> Here is a typical use case (with old pricing), 40 users:
> >>   - Public Price: $18720
> >>   - Partner Price: $9360 (a ready partner)
> >>   - Price sold to customer: $13.000
> >>   - Implementation Cost:    $90.000
> >>
> >> Maintenance part of the TCO: 12.6%
> >> Commission  part of the TCO:  3.5%
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Fabien Pinckaers <fp@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> <mailto:fp@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>     Hi,
> >>>
> >>>     I just wrote a blog to explain the new pricing:
> >>>         https://www.odoo.com/blog/1/post/158
> >>>
> >>>     Please read it before going further in this email.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     I'll try to answer most questions here:
> >>>
> >>>     1/ How to compute the price?
> >>>
> >>>     The price is: # total of users X # of apps bundle X 12€
> >>>
> >>>     2/ Why don't we charge according to real usage? (e.g.: 5 users on
> CRM, 3
> >>>     on accounting, 7 on projects?)
> >>>
> >>>     Because it's impossible to predict for yearly contracts! Quoting
> would
> >>>     become a nightmare and a lot of people would abuse from this
> unclear
> >>>     situation. (a customer would start with a low price but three month
> >>>     after we would have to upsell him because of the number of users
> on some
> >>>     apps)
> >>>
> >>>     Lets take the following use case: a company of 10 users that uses
> CRM,
> >>>     accounting, projects. They have 3 sales person, 4 consultants, 1
> >>>     director, 1 secretary and 1 accountant.
> >>>
> >>>     When you do a quote for this customer, how many users do they have
> per
> >>>     application?
> >>>       - is the director using accounting and CRM?
> >>>       - can the sales have read access to project for follow-ups to
> their
> >>>         customers?
> >>>       - can the accounting check sales orders coming from the sales?
> >>>       - is it the secreatary that give access rights to others users?
> >>>
> >>>     I checked in our production database. We have 7 persons working in
> the
> >>>     marketing department. If one do a quote of 7 users for the
> marketing
> >>>     application bundle, it's totally under-estimated.
> >>>
> >>>     In reality, we have 45 users on marketing application, not 7:
> >>>       - the Professional Service team that built the certification
> sample
> >>>         exam on the website (survey)
> >>>       - users that train others users on features
> >>>       - managers that need statistics about events, mass mailing, ...
> >>>       - most sales need an access to check prospects on events,
> >>>       - system administrator need an access to allocate access rights
> and
> >>>         test for others users
> >>>
> >>>     3/ Is it expensive?
> >>>
> >>>     Absolutly not. It's 2x to 3x cheaper than the market average.
> Check this
> >>>     comparison of software vendors:
> >>>       https://www.odoo.com/website/image/ir.attachment/537400/datas
> >>>
> >>>     Moreover, partners get 50% to 60% discount on the public price. It
> means
> >>>     gold partners pay only 4.8€ / $6 per user and per application.
> Whatever
> >>>     the market, it's super cheap and super competitive.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     4/ Is it an increase of the price?
> >>>
> >>>     For some customers: no. (1-3 apps)
> >>>     For some customers: yes.
> >>>
> >>>     The biggest increase would be around 2x more for one particular
> customer
> >>>     that uses a lot of applications. (6) I never saw a company running
> 10
> >>>     apps and if they do, it's normal that they pay 120€ per user
> because the
> >>>     value they get from Odoo is huge. No other product can offer this.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     5/ localization & customization
> >>>
> >>>     Odoo has a lot of huge advantages compared to traditional ERPs:
> >>>       - higher scope: website, ecommerce, cubes analysis, CRM, ...
> >>>       - better usability, faster implementation
> >>>       - better flexibility: allows custom development and high level
> config
> >>>
> >>>     Odoo also has a few disadvantages compared to traditional ERPs,
> the main
> >>>     one is the localization in some countries. (something we will fix
> for v9
> >>>     as we will massively invest in accounting l18n)
> >>>
> >>>     Odoo has a lot of PROS and a few CONs. But the few CONs are largely
> >>>     compensated by the PROs. As the product is better, economics tell
> us
> >>>     that the product must be more expensive.
> >>>
> >>>     Not only we are not more expensive, but we are at least 2x to 3x
> >>>     cheaper. And, if you take the partner price 4.8€ per user and per
> app,
> >>>     we are 6x cheaper than the competition!
> >>>
> >>>     I do not know a lot of industry where a product can be 2X cheaper
> for a
> >>>     better quality.
> >>>
> >>>     One should not be frustrated about the price.
> >>>
> >>>     @marcelo
> >>>     > I recently read the posts by the Compiere founder explaining what
> >>>     > went wrong after he got VC money. Read it and it will look like
> it is
> >>>     > all happening again.
> >>>     Every time we do a change in the community people cry: take care of
> >>>     forks, read Jorge's blog, VCs are evil, OpenERP does not
> understand its
> >>>     users...
> >>>
> >>>     Odoo is not comparable to Compiere/Tryton/Openbravo or others. The
> >>>     sustainability of a product is not related at all with fork
> threats,
> >>>     failure of others open source software or what ever.
> >>>
> >>>     The sustainability of every product is directly linked to it's
> ability
> >>>     to create a sustainable model where partners and publishers get
> enough
> >>>     revenues to grow their activities on the product.
> >>>
> >>>     This requires a lot of things like: having a great product
> allowing good
> >>>     service margins, a good price for the publisher, happy customers,
> etc.
> >>>
> >>>     >      What kind of business puts potential clients in front of
> active
> >>>     > paying clients? The model is wrong wrong wrong.
> >>>
> >>>     What's wrong is to have a pricing so cheap that it does not allow
> to
> >>>     sustain the development of the product, or too few customers
> because the
> >>>     product is not competitive. That's what killed some products.
> >>>
> >>>     >       If Odoo was a ready-to-use software then the model would
> make a
> >>>     > lot of sense. But they are ignoring the importance of
> localization &
> >>>     > customization. If I wanted off the shelf software I wouldn't
> bother
> >>>     > going open source.
> >>>
> >>>     Our customers don't choose Odoo beause it's open source. They
> choose
> >>>     Odoo because it's better (products and/or servives of partners)
> >>>
> >>>     We should stop being frustrated of being open source. It's not
> because
> >>>     we are open source that we should be cheaper. The only thing that
> >>>     matters for a customer is to have a great product at an affordable
> >>>     price.
> >>>
> >>>     Open Source is not a customer value, it's a way to develop better
> >>>     products.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     >             Also, this thing that partners will not get any
> commission
> >>>     >         on contracts with more than two years is REALLY
> nonsense. It
> >>>     >         essentially means that the contract will become 50% more
> >>>     >         expensive on the 3rd year because the partner will need
> that
> >>>     >         revenue back and of course it will be important for the
> client
> >>>     >         to keep bonds with the partner. It is really sad when
> >>>     companies
> >>>     >         pull this sort of crap on their "partners".
> >>>
> >>>     My understanding is that partners don't sell Odoo Enterprise
> because of
> >>>     their commissions. They sell it because they need it for their
> customers
> >>>     and because this allows them to sell more services. (and this is
> how it
> >>>     should be)
> >>>
> >>>     The part of the commission on Odoo Enterprise is usually lower
> than 4%
> >>>     of the revenue a partner take on a project. So, their motivation
> is not
> >>>     on the commission.
> >>>
> >>>     I may be wrong. I am open to discuss this during the community
> days.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     Hope it helps better understanding this strategic move,
> >>>     Thanks for the feedback,
> >>>
> >>>     --
> >>>     Fabien Pinckaers
> >>>     Odoo Founder
> >>>
> >>>     Phone: +32.81.81.37.00 <tel:%2B32.81.81.37.00>
> >>>     Web: https://www.odoo.com
> >>>     Twitter: @fpopenerp
> >>>
> >>>     _______________________________________________
> >>>     Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
> >>>     Post to     : openerp-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>     <mailto:openerp-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>     Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
> >>>     More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Très cordialement
> >
> > Maurice MORETTI
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________________
> > TeMPO CONSULTING 20, avenue de la Paix 67000 Strasbourg FRANCE
> >
> > Web   : http://www.tempo-consulting.fr
> > email : mm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > Tel      : 33 (0)3 88 56 82 10
> > Fax      : 33 (0)3 88 56 46 64
> > Mobile   : 33 (0)6 08 61 85 02
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Post to     : openerp-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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> >
>
>
> --
> Fabien Pinckaers
> Odoo Founder
>
> Phone: +32.81.81.37.00
> Web: https://www.odoo.com
> Twitter: @fpodoo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
> Post to     : openerp-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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>