openerp-community team mailing list archive

[Graeme Gellatly <gdgellatly@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Fabien, Gery, Anthony,

I've been investigating and promting the new graph views as I think they
meet the use case of a lot of small - midsize organisations and address one
of the big difficulties in using Openerp/odoo to date, that is accessing
data in an adhoc manner.  Of all the v8 things which look good, for me this
is the really big one.

A potential client has given me some feedback and one point in particular
which I think is relatively easy to implement (judging by how clickthrough
works on tree views) which would greatly increase the value of these
views.   This is click through from cell, e.g. when I click on a cell it
goes to a tree view filtered for those records.  For many managers this
would almost take them to the point that in many scenarios they become the
first order view for accessing odoo data. e.g. graph/table, tree/kanban,
form.

The second less important one which is potentially very useful but maybe
not so simple is being able to save a view much like being able to save
filters. (e.g. Last 3 months, by week, for this sales team (NOT APR,MAYJUN
by Week)

But the click through to the filtered records is essential, the use case
basically being - wow those numbers look good/bad/unexpected.  I wonder
where they came from?

Anyway please let me know what you think, if you aren't going to do it etc,
as I am happy to take advice on developing a module myself to extend the
view to do it.

Kind regards,
Graeme




On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Fabien Pinckaers <fp@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>
>
> Thorsten,
>
> Thanks for the feedback. My comments inline.
>
>
>
>> PROS:
>> - In most cases it will cover essential reporting demand of most small
>> medium business.
>> - in all other bi tools i know (palo, pentaho), it is quite complex to
>>  extract and load data from external system, to design olap cube, to design
>> reports for some basic report demand every company has, f.e. to analyse
>> simple measures like sold qty or revenues for some simple dimensions like
>> salesmen, products, time.
>> - it is probably possible to cover up to 70% - 80% of demanded reports
>> (for SMB).
>> - i agree that focussing on one technology i also expect better
>> acceptance of the people who guide SMB managers to use this reports.
>> However it was indeed not possible to see how complex it will be to bridge
>> the 20-30% gap.
>> - individual BI projects are normally expensive, in a lot of cases too
>> expensive for customers with 5-50 employees => integrated Light BI is much
>> better than nothing for this companies.
>>
>>
>> CONS:
>> - specific tools, f.e. olap cubes are eventually more flexible. They
>> allow to relate data, f.e. data from sales + project management in one cube
>> snapshot.
>>
>
> No, I think it's way more easy to "create a postgresql view" rather than
> 1/ extract 2/ load in data warehouse 3/ design olap cube 4/ design reports.
>
>
>> - the design of grid reports is easy and in well known environments, f.e.
>> in excel spreadsheets (or something which looks very similar).
>>
>
> Not sure I understand what you mean here. But we have a task to extract to
> Excel.
>
>
>>  - integrated bi reporting tools (like in the runbot branch) mostly
>> doesn't allow to calculate cells like in spreadsheets.
>>
>
> But we will have a tool extract to excel (or you can put the code in the
> postgresql view).
>
>
>> - i expect the larger the company the less is coverage of report demand.
>>
>
> Not sure about that.
>
> The main CON I see with our approach is that it does not allow to report
> on others sources than OpenERP (others BI tools are designed to consolidate
> data from multiple sources/software).
>
>
> Wishlist:
>>
>> --> a big part of your wishlist will be covered by Excel or Google
> Spreadsheet integration.
> And, yes, having an ethercalc integration would be even more powerful.
> (but not yet in our plans)
>
>
>
> In my opinion, BI tools are bloated and complex because in the past, 10
> years ago, it was tricky to compute on millions of records. So, they needed
> to design cube structure to organize data based on the way the user will
> report, separate data warehouses to not impact production servers, ... But
> now, since the hardware computation power has been multiplied by 200 in 10
> years, since servers have multiple cores, and since PostgreSQL performance
> evolved a lot, we don't need such a complex architecture to compute on
> hundreds of millions of records.
>
> This is why I think we have an opportunity to do something different than
> the traditional, bloated, BI tools. Our solution is only pre-v1, so it does
> not have tons of features. But, since it has only 1000 lines of code, it's
> super fast to add new features on top of it. So, even if a feature is
> missing, it's not even an issue as the cost of developping the feature will
> most probably be lower than the cost of trying to integrate a BI tool.
>
>
> But the most important is that integration is a so big value that it
> counter-balance every missing feature you may have. Would you consider
> deploying OpenERP account, sales, mrp but use another software for stock?
> For sure no, it looks like a very bad idea!
>
> For me, it's the same for BI; using OpenERP for accounts, sales, stock but
> another software for reports is a very bad idea. (even more important than
> stock as reporting is linked to ALL applications of OpenERP whereas stock
> is mostly linked to sales and accounting only) (*)
>
>
> Fabien
>
> (*) and it's the same for eCommerce :)
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Thorsten Vocks
>>
>> openBIG.org
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014/1/23 Fabien Pinckaers <fp@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>> Ovnicraft,
>>>
>>> Please test it. Check and judge by yourself if you don't agree. Our
>>> solution has PROs and CONs and it's very difficult to have an interesting
>>> conversation if you don't know what you are talking about and you don't
>>> have seen it before. We will waste time arguing "it's not feasible", "it's
>>> probably not as good", "but saiku do it that way", "Not Inveted Here is
>>> never a good approach..." if you don't judge by yourself.
>>>
>>> It's quite easy to test on runbot, here is the steps to test:
>>>   - Go to runbot: http://runbot.openerp.com
>>>   - Search the branch  "trunk-new-graphview-ged"
>>>   - Click on the arrow on the right of connect and select "All Addons"
>>>   - Go to Sales > Opportunities
>>>   - Switch to graph view
>>>   - Play with the data (the 'cube' view is the first icon)
>>>
>>> Once you will have tested it, I can answer all questions and we can
>>> discuss PROs and CONs. Before, we all waste our time.
>>>
>>> - -
>>> Fabien
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 7:10 PM, Ovnicraft <ovnicraft@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Fabien Pinckaers <fp@xxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> I suggest not to go for pentaho, spago, saiku, or others. You should
>>>>> check the branch of Antony, we developed nearly all features of current BI
>>>>> software and it's already fully working.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the community should better concentrate to build apps in
>>>>> OpenERP rather than trying to integrate with third party tools. Integration
>>>>> are always painful, difficult to reuse from one project to another, ...
>>>>> Developing a BI cube is just a few weeks of work (3 months for one
>>>>> developer, less than 1000 lines of code). Today, OpenERP is so advanced
>>>>> that developing a new app on OpenERP is usually easier than trying to
>>>>> integrate with others applications. It's much more powerful and it's
>>>>> maintainable over a long period of time.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi @Fabien: BI capabilities are a little bit hard to write, a Q: that
>>>> 1000 LOC has something like agregation, browsing, OLAP, ROLAP, logical
>>>> analysis, phisical analysis, hirarchical deps, slice ? just to mention few
>>>> features. You can check http://cubes.databrewery.org/
>>>>
>>>> IDK if DRY is lost here, but integration is part of make apps and
>>>> systems work together, via WS and OERP has a good stuff here.
>>>> NIH Rule is a bad option.
>>>>
>>>> Have a good graphs dont means has BI capabilities, if i am wrong please
>>>> describe features.
>>>>
>>>> I consider OERP could be strong in WS maker new APIs, new methods,
>>>> formats, etc and help us to write more apps w/o reinvent the wheel.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> ,
>>>>
>>>> We used to say internally that everything we develop that is not an
>>>>> OpenERP module will probably die in a few years. We did the mistake to
>>>>> integrate with SugarCRM, Alfresco, Ubercart, Webdav, CALDAV, Moodle. None
>>>>> of these modules are still useable today.
>>>>>
>>>>> With OpenERP, modules last if they are integrated, not if they are
>>>>> interfaced. Search on the web, you will find plenty of integration with
>>>>> Pentaho, SpagoBI, ... I bet that none of them are reusable on v7.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's why I think you should rely on the work done on this branch:
>>>>> trunk-new-graphview-ged (on http://runbot.openerp.com)
>>>>>
>>>>> To test, go to any record (e.g. opportunities) and switch to the graph
>>>>> view. Then, play with the cubes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The future is going to be integrated, not interfaced...
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Fabien
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Axel Mendoza Pupo <aekroft@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You could take a look at http://cubes.databrewery.org/ itś a python
>>>>>> based solution, it seems to be a good tool, lightweight, powerful and will
>>>>>> be not very difficult to get integrated into OpenERP
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Light-weight Python framework and OLAP HTTP server for easy
>>>>>> development of reporting applications and aggregate browsing of
>>>>>> multi-dimensionally modeled data.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope this helps
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 6:00 AM, Eric Caudal <
>>>>>> eric.caudal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Thanks everybody for the feedback!
>>>>>>> BTW: the branch in runbot is not responsive. I will test it locally
>>>>>>> though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eric Caudal*CEO*
>>>>>>> --*Elico Corporation, Shanghai branch
>>>>>>> OpenERP Premium Certified Training Partner *
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cell: + 86 186 2136 1670
>>>>>>> Office: + 86 21 6211 8017/27/37
>>>>>>> Skype: elico.corperic.caudal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> http://www.elico-corp.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [image: Elico Corp]
>>>>>>> On 01/23/2014 06:44 PM, Antony Lesuisse wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You may also check the branch trunk-new-graphview-ged it's available
>>>>>>> on runbot http://runbot.openerp.com/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a new graph view with BI capabilities. It will be merged in
>>>>>>> trunk in a few days.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://code.launchpad.net/~openerp-dev/openerp-web/trunk-new-graphview-ged
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 01/23/2014 07:24 AM, Eric Caudal wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> What are currently the technical solutions available for OpenERP to
>>>>>>> be able to
>>>>>>> generate cubes for Business Intelligence?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I need to prepare a panel of solutions for one of my customers and
>>>>>>> would like
>>>>>>> to know:
>>>>>>> - Tools and vendors involved
>>>>>>> - Difficulty to integrate withh OpenERP7 current data model
>>>>>>> - Price range if relevant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NB:
>>>>>>> I am not really looking for static reporting tools but more for
>>>>>>> dynamic data
>>>>>>> builders (equivalent to Cognos or Crystal Report).
>>>>>>> It doesnot need to be opensource and Google is not an option as
>>>>>>> google.doc is
>>>>>>> not available in China.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looking forward to reading you
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Eric CAUDAL
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eric Caudal
>>>>>>> /CEO/
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> *Elico Corporation, Shanghai branch
>>>>>>> /OpenERP Premium Certified Training Partner/  *
>>>>>>> Cell: + 86 186 2136 1670
>>>>>>> Office: + 86 21 6211 8017/27/37
>>>>>>> Skype: elico.corp
>>>>>>> eric.caudal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx  <mailto:eric.caudal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx><eric.caudal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>> http://www.elico-corp.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Elico Corp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
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>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
>>>>> Post to     : openerp-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cristian Salamea
>>>> @ovnicraft
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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