openerp-community team mailing list archive

[David Arnold - El Alemán <david@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

*Hola*

thanks for your valuable opinions. Due to actual and urgent business needs
and the support of PosBox in the various versions, I might be in the
uncomfortable psotition to setup something on SaaS3 for my company for now
and then will have to migrate to V8. Just waiting is not an option :(
Growth (fortunatly) isn't linked to Odoo releases.. :)

So I got the idea, that UI hides the complexity of the task, which might be
kind of a (highly reduced) common denominator. I understand therefore, that
the broad user base of migration scripts is more comfortable on CLI
operations. I also understand, that upgrading from one version to another
(OpenUpgrade) is kind of a different task than a full-blown migration
(Kettel, or other ETL-tools), although - however - there might be shared
patterns which probably could/should be shared (to align some spaghetties
:).

A sidenote on my background on this respect: I have worked as a client side
business analyst in one of the biggest bank migration projects in
Switzerland (ENTRIS). Well, what we where offered where poorly commented
excel mapping tables. Imho that was an absolutely inapropriate tool choice
and had severe impact on the collaborative momentum and on the agility of
the project So maybe with some kettle, cloverETL japersoftETL or talend
setup this could have been done more effectively, but probably there still
is no such collaborative (let's call it "social") migration framework
around.

Processing through my brain the evolving discussion, I couldrephrase, that
"social migration framework" is maybe the core of my concern as kind of a
defenition of a desired state (vision). This is clearly not a scope of Odoo
nor OCA at all. This would be a clear case to leverage existing solutions
(if any) from the different open source and best practice communities
around the world.

I generally favor the idea to leverage the experience and the power of
other communites and strategically fear a bit the tendency I perceive to
incorporate much "hombrewn" functionality into Odoo. (eg. Askbot vs. Forum
Module, BI vs. official Pentaho Integration, Docu Mgt vs. Alfresco, even
database abstraction layers, etc.) I initially thought there would be an
opportuinity to change the way Odoo upgrades and "outsource" this
functionality to an expert open source community to free up OCA resources
to focus on the ERP side. That might have been a bit naive.

I think we can leave this conversation therefore tagged as
"Upgrade/Migration :: Stretegic Inputs" to remember when it will be time to
make such decisions or change paradigms or whatever.. :) If what I said
about "social migration framework" was a headache in our case, it is so in
others, too, so if there's no solution yet, I'm confident, there will be
(soon).

*Speaking to the best of my knowledge, saludos*

David


----------------------
*David Arnold B.A. HSG*
*Gerente*

+57 315 304 1368
david@xxxxxxxxxxx
www.elaleman.co

​El Alemán S.A.S, Carrera 13 # 93 - 40 P4, Bogotá D.C, Colombia


2014-05-30 4:19 GMT-05:00 Florent THOMAS <mailinglist@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

>  Hy Folks,
>
> I'm using all the pentaho stuff with openerp :
> - Pentaho Reports for OpenERP
> - Pentaho Kettle for data integration
>
> I've recently merged 4 companies coming from 4 different databases with no
> id export into a single openerp database with multi company environment.
> I precise also that Kettle could also be launch through CLI. I design with
> the UI and deploy it on my server and launch it with cron.
> I also precise that Kettle could launch any script even python, access to
> the openerp API thanks to the awesome project :
> https://github.com/DeBortoliWines/openerp-java-api
>
> Frequently my coworkers are wanting to create kettle export instead of
> coding python. I always refuse this for many reasons :
> - The closer you are from the core the better you are to debug
> - The lower number of tools your working with the mighter your are when
> you're working on it
> - The lower number of workflows you have to manage, the easier to disgest
> is your spaghetti dish !
> - The "new fun" tool is not always the answer
> - A UI oftently hide the complexity of a task
>
> So maybe kettle could be a great help for cleaning datas before upgrading
> but I don't think that would be a great idea to use it for OpenUpgrade as a
> single answer.
>
> Regards
>
>
>
>  Le 30/05/2014 10:45, Peter Langenberg a écrit :
>
> +1 Daniel
>
>
> 2014-05-30 10:00 GMT+02:00 Daniel Reis <dgreis@xxxxxxx>:
>
>> David,
>>
>> I've been using Pentaho Kettle with OpenERP for a few years now, so I'm
>> quite comfortable with what you can do with it.
>>
>>  About Pentaho Kettle, I read HERE[1] that it has a GRAPHICAL TOOL FOR
>>> ETL and can be used to update a database. This sounds for me like a hot
>>> canditate for OpenUpgrade, especially to improve usability and stuff
>>>
>>
>> Since it's a graphical tool you can get the impression that it's "easier".
>> But as soon as you get to do more complex or extensive data handling, a
>> GUI
>> starts being more a hurdle than a help.
>> And the transformations you design are not simpler nor more readable
>> compared to scripted code.
>>
>>
>>  I imagine a VM (probably even using vagrant boxes or docker) that has a
>>> ready configured data migration server, where you can easily manipulate ETL
>>> and stuff WITH A KIND OF INTEGRATION OF PANTAHO KETTLE AND
>>> OPENUPGRADE-LOGIC, maintained and alimented with best practices from
>>> github, making it easy easy easy to set up and share migration pipelines
>>> for modules.
>>>
>>
>> I think Kettle is an excellent tool than can aid you in a lot of data
>> integration tasks.
>> But I honestly don't think it would do a good task at OpenERP version
>> upgrade.
>>
>> For a "black box" upgrade you want to run a command on your server and
>> let it do the magic for you.
>> That's a perfect job for scripts. And that's what OpenUpgrade is all
>> about:
>> provide migration scripts for OpenERP modules.
>>
>>
>>
>>  My general mission, I feel myself dedicated to within the community, is
>>> usability and tearing down hurdles and inconveniences. Such proposal would
>>> perfectly fit. I think people are just inherently lazy, so if we could
>>> maximze convenience we could maximize contribution and therefore probably
>>> momentum and quality of the whole project.
>>>
>>
>>  As I mentioned before, I don't think Kettle would be a good choice here.
>> My suggestions on how you could contribute are:
>>
>> * Write a good tutorial text to help people start with OpenUpgrade.
>> * Eventually, write a GUI program to wrap around the OpenUpgrade scripts,
>> like what some programs do for bzr or git.
>>
>>
>> Keep up the enthusiasm and hope to see nice things from you soon :)
>>
>> /DR
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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