openstack team mailing list archive

["Kurt Griffiths" <kurt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Personally, I've been interested in learning Erlang as well. Eric, could you explain more about why you anticipate that the queuing service will CPU-bound? In either case, I've heard that Erlang can actually make better use of multi-procs than C++, but I don't have any experience to speak from.

>Personally, I'd prefer C++ since that's what I'm used to, but I'd be open to learning Erlang, too. Been wanting to learn it for a while now.

>-jay

On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 1:11 AM, Eric Day <eday@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Duck farm? :)
>
> Are you two concerned about building a developer community around a 
> project in Erlang? I'm all for going that route if other folks are 
> comfortable with it.
>
> I also have some concern around the speed of Erlang. It's great, 
> especially if you know what primitives can be expensive and how to 
> tame beam, but it will always be slower (sometimes significantly) that 
> C/C++ for some tasks.
>
> -Eric
>
> On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 03:26:09PM -0800, Joshua McKenty wrote:
>>    +1 for Erlang, as long as we have a duck farm.
>>
>>    On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Devin Carlen 
>> <devin.carlen@xxxxxxxxx>
>>    wrote:
>>
>>      I'll put in a +1 for Erlang as an OpenStack supported platform.  
>> We'd be
>>      able to write a stable queue with a much more concise code base, 
>> and
>>      this is project would be a great fit for Erlang.
>>      Devin
>>      On Feb 17, 2011, at 2:21 PM, Eric Day wrote:
>>
>>      > Thanks to everyone who gave great feedback on the first queue 
>> service
>>      > thread. I've updated the wiki page to include the suggestions.
>>      >
>>      > http://wiki.openstack.org/QueueService
>>      >
>>      > With a decent vision of what we want to build, the next step 
>> is
>>      > figuring out how. In a previous thread it was suggested that 
>> the
>>      > preferred languages for OpenStack projects are Python, C, and
>>      > C++. Since there is an emphasis on speed and efficiency for 
>> the
>>      > queue service, I suggest we use C++. I expect this service to 
>> be
>>      > CPU bound and would benefit being able to leverage multiple 
>> cores
>>      > efficiently (within the same process), so I don't think Python
>>      > is a good fit. I think C++ is a better fit than C due to the 
>> need
>>      > for modular interfaces. While this can obviously be done in C, 
>> C++
>>      > APIs are more concise and much less error prone. The OO style 
>> will
>>      > also make it easier for Python developers who also want to 
>> learn and
>>      > assist with C++ projects.
>>      >
>>      > Erlang is not on the preferred lists, but I would also put it 
>> out
>>      > there as an option. While it may be a great fit for a project 
>> like
>>      > this, I worry it won't attract the developer resources since 
>> Erlang
>>      > isn't really a first-class language yet.
>>      >
>>      > If we decide to take the C++ path, I propose using a modular
>>      > application framework I've been working on over the past year 
>> (mostly
>>      > in my spare time). It provides a simple module programming 
>> interface
>>      > with dependency tracking (kind of like Linux kernel modules). 
>> It
>>      > already provides a multi-threaded event module (currently 
>> based on
>>      > libevent, but this is pluggable) with simple networking 
>> abstractions
>>      > built on top of it. We should be able to dive in an start 
>> writing the
>>      > HTTP protocol module and queue processing modules. You can 
>> check out
>>      > the current project at:
>>      >
>>      > https://launchpad.net/scalestack
>>      > http://scalestack.org/
>>      >
>>      > The intention of using a framework like this is so we can 
>> easily reuse
>>      > the other modules (auth, HTTP, logging, ...) for other 
>> OpenStack
>>      > services in the future. Much like we use Eventlet, WSGI, etc. 
>> (and
>>      > eventually openstack-common) for Python, we could prefer using 
>> the
>>      > modules in Scale Stack for lower level projects.
>>      >
>>      > Thoughts?
>>      > -Eric
>>      >
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