torios-dev team mailing list archive

["Ali Linx (amjjawad)" <amjjawad@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi again,

I've been thinking for sometime now about the list of ToriOS packages. I
have some questions:


On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 6:33 AM, Ali Linx (amjjawad) <amjjawad@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, May 28, 2018 at 11:38 PM, Israel <israeldahl@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> On 05/27/2018 01:19 AM, Ali Linx (amjjawad) wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Could someone please provide me with a full list of ToriOS's packages?
>> From A to Z.
>>
>> How and where can I find that?!
>>
>> Thank you in advance!
>>
>>
>> --
>> Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Ali/amjjawad <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad>
>>
>>
>> ToriOS Core (non GUI... the functional system stuff... though it includes
>> some X11 stuff)
>>
>> alsa-utils,
>>  apparmor,
>>  apt-transport-https,
>>  bash-completion,
>>  busybox-static,
>>  command-not-found,
>>  consolekit,
>>  cpio,
>>  cron,
>>  dialog,
>>  discover,
>>  dnsutils,
>>  dosfstools,
>>  ed,
>>  file,
>>  ftp,
>>  ghostscript,
>>  gsfonts,
>>  hdparm,
>>  hfsprogs,
>>  htop,
>>  info,
>>  iptables,
>>  iputils-tracepath,
>>  irqbalance,
>>  laptop-detect,
>>  less,
>>  links2,
>>  linux-base | linux-generic | linux-generic-lts-trusty,
>>  locate,
>>  logrotate,
>>  lshw,
>>  lsof,
>>  ltrace,
>>  lzma,
>>  man,
>>  man-db,
>>  manpages,
>>  mime-support,
>>  mlocate,
>>  mtr-tiny,
>>  nano,
>>  net-tools,
>>  ntfs-3g,
>>  openssh-client,
>>  partclone,
>>  parted,
>>  pciutils,
>>  ppp,
>>  pppconfig,
>>  pppoeconf,
>>  psmisc,
>>  pv,
>>  python3-software-properties | python-software-properties,
>>  rsync,
>>  rtorrent,
>>  software-properties-common,
>>  sudo,
>>  strace,
>>  tcpdump,
>>  telnet,
>>  time,
>>  ufw,
>>  upower,
>>  usbutils,
>>  uuid-runtime,
>>  wget,
>>  wireless-tools,
>>  x11-xserver-utils,
>>  xdg-user-dirs,
>>  xdg-utils,
>>  xinit,
>>  xserver-xorg,
>>  xserver-xorg-core | xserver-xorg-core-lts-trusty,
>>  zsync
>>
>
*Q.1*
Are these the 'under-the-hood' packages that makes ToriOS *The* *ToriOS*?


*Q.2*
What is the total size of all the above packages?!


*Q.3*
If we remove one or more of these packages, are we going to be able to run
ToriOS? is ToriOS will remain ToriOS after removing one or more of these
packages?!


*Q.4*
If the answer of Q.3 is "Yes, we can!", what package(s) can we get rid of
without having bad impact on the system and the user?!


*Q.5*
While non of the above is GUI package, is there any package of these
affects the used RAM? in another word, what package(s) is/are running in
the background and need(s) more memory?! We need to remove/stop any extra
package that needs more memory.




> ToriOS DESKTOP (things you consider apps in *BOLD*)
>>
>> alsa-utils,
>>  desktop-file-utils,
>>  *gdebi*,
>>  gettext,
>>  gnome-keyring,
>>  gksu,
>>  grub2,
>>  gxmessage,
>>  *imagemagick*,
>>  jwm,
>>  jwm-menu | jwm-menu-bash,
>> * jwm-settings-manager* (>=2.0.0ubuntu1) | torios-jwmrc-script-tools,
>>  libgtk2.0-bin,
>>  libpam-gnome-keyring,
>>  lightdm,
>>  lightdm-gtk-greeter,
>>  menu,
>>  menu-xdg,
>>  network-manager | wicd,
>> * network-manager-gnome* | wicd-gtk,
>>  *pcmanfm* | thunar | rox-filer | nautilus,
>>
>>  xfce4-power-manager | sdesk | *yad*,
>>
>> ### We don't use xfce4-power-manager we for the battery indicator we use
>> a script + yad.  It has a lot of hefty depends!
>>
>>
>>  *sakura* | gnome-terminal | xfce4-terminal | lxterminal,
>>  torios-apthandler | apturl,
>>  torios-core,
>>  torios-plymouth |  torios-plymouth-text,
>>  torios-doc,
>>  volumeicon-alsa | *yad*,
>>  wpagui,
>> * x11-apps*,
>>  xdg-user-dirs-gtk,
>>  xkbset,
>>  *xterm*,
>>  *xtrlock*,
>>  xsltproc,
>>  *zenity*
>>
>
*Q.6*
Are the above packages what make ToriOS the visible/GUI ToriOS we all know?!


*Q.7*
By writing:

*pcmanfm* | thunar | rox-filer | nautilus,
>

Does it mean all the mentioned packages are installed by default?! I'm
confused here. I know we have PCManFM but what the other file managers are
doing with the list of the default installed packages?!


*Q.8*
What package can be removed without affecting ToriOS overall?!



>
>> yad and zenity  make up many of our 'apps' and indicators
>>
>>  - volume/power are yad + bash
>>
>>  - logout/shutdown/suspend/hibernate are bash +
>> yad/zenity/gxmessage/whatever dialogs
>>
>>  - About Computer/Common Tasks/Update System and
>> Coftware/zLocate/zRun/Screenie/Calendar/Search and Install
>> Software/Sticky Keys Chooser
>>
>> Are all bash scripts with a zenity/yad/dialog/etc... frontend GUI
>>
>> Altogether our scripts are 287.9 KiB in size
>>
>
*Q.9*
Which means nothing can be removed? we need them all?


*Q.10*
I've found some bugs or missing features in the above mentioned list. I
think it's better to report that in different email/thread so hopefully we
can get rid of that (fix them, maybe) with ToriOS.web so what do you think?!



> The x11 apps are 2,166 kB (installed size from `apt show x11-apps` on
>> 64bit)
>>
>
*Q.11*
Are ALL these applications/packages necessary?!


> apt show torios-desktop  = Installed-Size: 1,660 kB
>>
>
*Q.12*
Are these the same under:

ToriOS DESKTOP (things you consider apps in *BOLD*)
>

list? the one that starts with "alsa-utils" and ends with "zenity"?


The x11 apps give us a text editor that is not vi or nano, so it becomes
>> much easier to edit files for the user.  It also includes a calculator, a
>> screen magnifier, and a x11 manual browser.  I also has xload.
>>
>> We decided to go with these smaller packages because it gave us MANY more
>> choices and made ToriOS very usable with no major package installs
>>
>
*Q.13*
We're talking about the GUI packages here, right? which can be replaced
and/or removed but keeping them ALL make ToriOS *The ToriOS*?!



> The user can install galculator/gnome-calculator or whatever and
>> leafpad/mousepad/pluma/geany/whatever for text files.
>>
>> We chose not to install some of these other things, because the
>> dependency sizes.  We get the basic functionality, and a smaller size.
>>
>
Which is all about ToriOS's Philosophy.


> That said, I am open to getting rid of basically everything (no settings,
>> no extra functionality like calculator/text editor/graphical
>> shutdown/restart or software tools.)
>>
>> We could trim it down even further, no doubt about it.
>>
>
*Q.14*
If that possible, I wonder how ToriOS will look like? or, the better
question is: how usable the system will be after trimming?! aside from the
previous questions - which packages can we remove without affecting the
system badly?!


*Q.15*
Last but not least, how can I play with these packages? if I want to
add/remove some to test things myself, how can I do that?!


-- 
>> Regards
>>
>> Dear Israel and everyone else,
>
> Thanks a billion for providing the FULL list of ToriOS packages and even
> better, it comes with great explanation. Highly appreciate that!
>
> Now, from the new subject of this email, I guess it shows my real
> intention and why I asked about that to begin with.
>
> ToriOS.web, of course if we approved that, will be the lightweight version
> of ToriOS. If everything goes well, this will be a great test for ToriOS
> 2.0 or maybe the later versions. I have some other ideas in mind but I
> won't share everything at once. I'll do it step by step.
>

So, to make that even more clear:
We're looking for a more lightweight version of ToriOS + a version that is
built for browsing the web as the primary/main task beside other stuff
users can do.


>
> I'm so much interested to offer two versions or flavours of ToriOS:
> ToriOS
> and
> ToriOS.web
>
> The web version/flavour will NOT include some packages. Users have to
> install whatever they want. We shall focus on the 'main' packages which
> make ToriOS the system we all knew.
>

I'm just concern about which package can we remove without any harm?!


> Also, we need to reduce the menu's entries.
>

Which is something else. I am not sure what is the right term/word for
that? let's say enhancing ToriOS visualization or improving the look and
feel of the menu.

I was also thinking to maybe get rid of "places" menu and instead of that,
we can place an icon for the file manager on the desktop beside the trash.



>
> Needless to say, ToriOS.web will be shipped with a web browser or maybe
> more than just one.
>

Maybe one browser is enough + a post-install list (I think we call it the
common task?) that gives the user more than one browser to choose and
install as desired.


>
> That's the initial plan.
>

The look and feel of ToriOS.web should be dedicated for browsing the web. A
fully working GUI OS (GNU/Linux) but dedicated mainly for browsing the web.


>
> Oh, and ToriOS.web will be based on Debain so nothing to change in this
> regard.
>

Let's stick with what we have so we can avoid extra testing and wasting
more time.


>
> I'll go through the list very carefully and then send my proposed list.
> After that, we can discuss which package can go and which package must stay.
>

Which is already done on this email.


>
> Many thanks once more!
>
>
>
>
As always, thanks a lot!

-- 
Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."

Best Regards,
Ali/amjjawad <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad>