torios team mailing list archive

[Nio Wiklund <nio.wiklund@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi everybody,
[replying inline]
Best regards/Nio

Den 2014-08-12 22:39, Israel skrev:
> On 08/12/2014 02:24 PM, Paul Sutton wrote:
>> On 12/08/14 19:34, Ali Linx wrote:
>>> Hi dear family,
>>>
>>> I was about to start a blueprint for this but I thought it is better
>>> to bring it here first :)
>>>
>>> 1- Should we release two images for ToriOS? i386 and amd64? AKA 32bit
>>> and 64bit?
>>>
>>> If the answer of #1 is YES then:

I suggest focus on *one* slim version (i386), at least the first version

>>> 2- A side from the architecture differences, what else ToriOS 64bit
>>> will be different than ToriOS 32bit?
>>>
>>> 3- I am thinking to make ToriOS 32bit as slim and minimal as possible
>>> with only the very basic apps like File Manager, Browser, Synaptic,
>>> Terminal, other very necessary packages and that is all. And, making
>>> ToriOS 64: ToriOS 32 + More applications so users can have full
>>> working desktop system.
>>>
>>> Now, here is a catch:
>>>
>>> If #3 will be agreed on and approved by everyone, you first need to
>>> know that this is the opposite of ToriOS philosophy. If we go ahead
>>> with #3 then we are simply creating another Lubuntu with different
>>> applications. So, we must be very careful with this one - I do NOT
>>> want to copy-paste from another system no matter what.
>>>
>>> 4- If 'torios-desktop' package (meta package) will be implemented
>>> successfully then  any system based on Ubuntu can install that
>>> package. So, do we need here two packages? one for 32bit and one for
>>> 64bit? this is valid only of #3 is approved.
>>>
>>> 5- Are we going to make ToriOS available for everyone? or only those
>>> with some skills and experience? if truth to be told, when I first
>>> announced the idea of this project, I did not want ToriOS to be for
>>> everyone to be honest. Why? because not everyone knows how to build
>>> his/her own system by him/her self. However and by time, specially
>>> when we built this team, I have asked to offer the best documentations
>>> so we could help those with less experience to find out more and learn
>>> more and be able to use ToriOS.
>>>
>>> 6- If we all agree on point #5, you need to know that we do NOT have
>>> to release a 64bit version at all. However, if that would happen,
>>> those with more than 4GB RAM will not consider ToriOS since it is
>>> going to be only 32bit.
>>>
>>> 7- Since ToriOS is offering a support for Non-PAE machines by default,
>>> I found #6 is very logical. But, yes .. there is always but ... again,
>>> this mean less people to use ToriOS if desired.
>>>
>>>
>>> You see, everything is connected and inside a loop. If we drop this
>>> then that will be affected, and so on.
>>>
>>> This is very tricky, no doubt about it.
>>>
>>> To make it even more confusing (sorry), we all know that ToriOS 1.0 is
>>> based on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS and chances are so high that ToriOS 2.0 is
>>> based on Ubuntu 14.04. That said, we don't really have to make 1.0 a
>>> system for EVERY user. But then again, if we can, why not?
>>>
>>> In short, I do highly suggest these criteria:
>>> KISS = Keep It Simple and Short
>>> Balanced = try to have a balanced system that could draw a smile on
>>> most faces.
>>> Success = Do not aim for success if you want it, just do what you love
>>> and believe in and success will come naturally.
>>> Failure = I can't tell you the key to success but key to failure is
>>> trying to please everyone.

+1

>>> So, these are my 4 main criteria that will help us to decide what is
>>> best for everyone WE + Users.
>>>
>>> I am sorry to confuse you and sorry more to bring such discussion at
>>> this stage but the way we have developed is really impressive and that
>>> is what is motivating me to expand a bit with our thoughts :)
>>>
>>> Looking forward to hear your opinion (or read).
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>> Ok sent to list, this time sorry
>>
>> Why not make them both as slim as possible so people can choose what
>> they want.  My main PC does not have a cd device on at all, so there is
>> no point in having software to read or write cd's  however all distros
>> include this,  rather irritating,  and takes up disk space.
>>
>> Lets keep it to our philosophy and keep it as minimal as possible and
>> allow users to choose what they want.

+1

>> I would prefer Libreoffice over Abi word,  the fact Abiword like with cd
>> software is there at the start in some distros just causes more work for
>> me having to close and re-open. So lets keep it simple 
>>
>> hope this helps
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
> Hi Paul and all,
> 
> I think the main thing we should do, is make a
> torios-core metapackage which installs jwm, and all the simple apps for
> the basic use of a computer.  This way users that WANT to install
> libreoffice instead of abiword, or use vlc instead of whatever... can
> install everything they want and customize it fully.
> 
> However, people with old computers MAY NOT have GOOD internet to
> download things when they want to.  They may need a 'fully functional'
> computer from one download, and may not know much about ToriOS, other
> than the fact that it can run on their hardware, when nothing else can
> (mostly).

If the internet connection is bad, it is also bad to download the iso
file / image file. Would it be possible to distribute a DVD with
packages? Who and how many people would want it?

> Since this is based on Ubuntu it will have the largest support from the
> non-linux world (though rpm is fairly close as well), and there are
> thousands of sites to help users with any number of issues.
> 
> We can also make a
> torios-desktop package that installs all the extra stuff.  So, when you
> are in a chroot (based on Ubuntu) you can add a PPA, and build your
> image with just the torios-core.  Then you can go back into your chroot
> install the desktop package and build a second image with not much extra
> effort.
> 
> The 2 barriers I am facing are:
> *1)* 12.04 does not want to build my package (I am working on this..
> trying to find out what is different in cmake 2.8.7 versus 2.8.12)
> 
> *2)* OBI has to be run on a real computer with a USB to make the image
> (though Nio has said it can run from a certain Virtual Machine program..
> was it VMWare?)

The standard OBI boots from USB (normally) but can boot from any mass
storage device, also from an internal HDD (or virtual disk).
KVM-VirtManager can boot from USB, VirtualBox can boot from a (second)
virtual disk.

But we can make an OBI-9w installer, which can boot also from CD, so
that it can be booted from the iso file by 'any' virtual machine program.

> I can build the 14.04 image within a few days, and release an ISO...
> however the 12.04 image will take me a bit of time to pick through my
> build logs, and read the 2.8.7 documentation to find out what is missing
> (or what works differently).

Do you need an iso for 12.04, or can it be OK with a compressed image of
an installed system, that is installed via the OBI or the OBI-9w?

> P.S. anyone who has done this before and wants to help (or has never
> done this and wants to help) e-mail me :)
> 
> -- 
> Regards
> 
> 
>