torios team mailing list archive

[Israel <israeldahl@xxxxxxxxx>]

On 09/04/2016 11:02 PM, Nio Wiklund wrote:
> Den 2016-09-04 kl. 22:13, skrev Israel:
> > On 09/04/2016 09:54 AM, Nio Wiklund wrote:
> > > [bottom posting]
> > >
> > > Den 2016-09-04 kl. 13:29, skrev Ali/amjjawad:
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > On *Wed, Aug 31, 2016* at 8:53 PM, Ali/amjjawad <amjjawad@xxxxxxxxxx
> > > > <mailto:amjjawad@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >     [Draft 2]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 4 days and not even one single word from anyone?! very interesting :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >     _*ToriOS 1.0*_
> > > >
> > > >       * ToriOS is a GNU/Linux Operating System built for very old
> > > >         computers (NON PAE) and for those who are interested and brave
> > > >         enough to build their own system the way they like from a 
> > > > fully
> > > >         working base with GUI and minimal installed packages by 
> > > > default.
> > > >       * For more information, please visit: http://torios.top/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >     _*Technical Specifications*_
> > > >
> > > >       * ToriOS 1.0 is based on the stable release of Debian 8 
> > > > (Jessie) -
> > > >         https://wiki.debian.org/DebianJessie
> > > >         <https://wiki.debian.org/DebianJessie>.
> > > >       * Supported until 2020 - https://wiki.debian.org/LTS.
> > > >       * Has two different kernels: Non-PAE and PAE kernel.
> > > >       * Technically, 128MB of RAM is fine but you need more RAM if you
> > > >         wish to use the Internet.
> > > >       * Minimum Intel Celeron, ATOM or P4.
> > > >       * 4GB disk space is more than enough.
> > > >       * Either a CD/DVD drive or an USB port for the installer media.
> > > >       * JWM is the default Windows Manager.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >     _*Features*_
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >     _*Known Issues*_
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >     _*Download ToriOS 1.0*_
> > > >
> > > >       * Please make sure to read the release notes before anything 
> > > > else,
> > > >         specially the known bugs and the workarounds.
> > > >       * Make sure to backup your important files. Don't blame the 
> > > > OS for
> > > >         any fault if you failed to backup what you care about.
> > > >       * http://torios.top/download/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >     Nothing else in mind at the moment. That's just the 2nd draft. 
> > > > There
> > > >     should be more drafts until we reach the final one. All help and
> > > >     contribution are welcome!
> > > >
> > > >     --
> > > >     Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
> > > >
> > > >     Best Regards,
> > > >     Ali/amjjawad <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us."
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards,
> > > > Ali/amjjawad <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad>
> > >
> > > Hi Ali,
> > >
> > > I have one big objection:
> > > -----
> > > Technically, 128MB of RAM is fine but you need more RAM if you wish to
> > > use the Internet.
> > > -----
> > > should be changed to
> > > -----
> > > Technically, 256 MB of RAM is fine but you need more RAM if you wish
> > > to use the Internet for browsing to web pages.
> > > -----
> > >
> > > The reason for this is that I tested the release candidate now in my
> > > Dell Dimension 4600 with a Pentium 4 processor. I bought this computer
> > > in January 2004, it is 12 1/2 years old, and is rather typical for the
> > > computers where ToriOS is supposed to work. And it needs 256 MB RAM to
> > > install ToriOS using the OBI-installer. The installed system needs
> > > only 128 MB RAM, but it must be installed! (I can install it in text
> > > mode with my original One Button Installer or with 9w.)
> > >
> > > Maybe it is possible to use ToriOS live in VirtualBox with only 128 MB
> > > RAM, but I doubt that it can install a system using the OBI-installer.
> > >
> > > Possible reasons for the increased need of RAM:
> > >
> > > 1. Changed base from Ubuntu 12.04 to Debian Jessie. I don't know how
> > > much this increases the size, but both the kernel, language packs and
> > > systemd make a difference.
> > >
> > > 2. Change to highest compression of the tarball, 8MB --> 65MB RAM. A
> > > solution is to use standard compression, but it means that things must
> > > be stripped from the live system and/or the tarball to stay within CD
> > > size.
> > >
> > > 3. Graphics only. I could not boot with text screen. Maybe it is
> > > possible, but the boot option 'text' did not do the trick, and I don't
> > > know systemd well enough to make it work. Maybe a solution would be to
> > > provide a line in the boot menu for booting in text mode.
> > >
> > > See the attached file for more details about my test.
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > > Nio
> >
> > Hi Nio,
> >
> > I could try to make a less compressed tarball (no super xz compression)
> > and see how big it is... we have around 3 MiB to spare.... so it *might*
> > be possible to slim the ISO a bit, and work it to be thinner.... OR make
> > a much more bare-bones tarball and prompt the user to install some
> > really needed packages right away.
> >
> > Maybe leave that in the jwmrc file until they run the script and install
> > things?
> >
> > just a thought.
> >
> > --
> > Regards
>
> Hi Israel,
>
> A much more barebone tarball with standard xz compression would be a 
> good idea. I would suggest making two iso files for the next released 
> version ToriOS-1.1:
>
> 1. a minimal CD size iso file
>
> 2. a larger iso file, between 1 and 2 GB, which contains most things a 
> normal user might need, so that it would work well when installed 
> without an internet connection.
>
> I suggest that you use standard xz compression in both cases in order 
> to decrease the usage of RAM during installation.
>
> Best regards
> Nio

Hi Nio,

Yes, indeed.  I do wish systemd did not make things so much bigger....  
It really made this harder than it should be.

That said, I think we can make a really simple slimmed down version, or 
even go to our previous discussions about allowing a separate tarball to 
be installed (from USB stick that was downloaded separately).

Some 'nice' things are not needed, like plymouth for example.

Even Sakura is not necessary, as xterm will do just fine.  I am also 
working on the jwm-settings-manager, and it should require less space 
when I am completely finished.

We will have to test both solutions, and weigh them to find which is:

1) most practical

2) easiest

3) least demand on bandwidth for the user (still not require an online 
connection to install ToriOS)

I think #3 is important in more remote areas, as getting just enough 
time to go somewhere to get the ISO burned and bring it home to find you 
need internet to install would be unfortunate.

I agree that this discussion is for ToriOS 1.1 and NOT the current one.

I am content with the state of ToriOS 1.0 and looking forward to all the 
improvements the first point release will bring.


--
Regards