ubuntu-phone team mailing list archive

[Piotrek Mitana <the.mail.of.mi2@xxxxxxxxx>]

Well, that might be a part of something. But I would really like to see it
as a part of bigger, convergence project...

2017-04-06 16:01 GMT+02:00 Kristijan Žic <kristijan.zic@xxxxxxxxx>:

> Some good news: http://www.unity8.org/
>
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 1:05 PM Piotrek Mitana <the.mail.of.mi2@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
>> I don't think moving from Snap to Flatpack will be the best idea. With
>> this we would lose the base of Ubuntu Core, which is all about snaps. We
>> could stick to deb base, but Ubuntu Core in my opinion wonderfully
>> separates the layers - kernel is one snap, additional hardware support is
>> the second (gadget snap) and the OS core functionality and libraries are
>> the third (OS snap). At least if I understand the idea of Ubuntu Core
>> correctly. Well played in case of OTA updates and supporting multiple
>> devices.
>>
>> Having Ubuntu Core as base may be very helpful, as is sill - and from now
>> on even more - comercially backed by Canonical. This increases chances that
>> one day a hardware manufacturer would commercially release the device with
>> Ubuntu Core and Unity OS on top of it.
>>
>> And with Ubuntu Core the base is already here - for desktop we do have
>> Ubuntu Core and Unity 8 snap session. I don't know it Unity 8 snap is
>> runnable using Ubuntu Core itself (and not the deb-based Ubuntu Desktop
>> with the snap session started).
>>
>> Snaps gained some traction in the community. We have VLC, I think Mozilla
>> mentioned somewhere that it might create a Firefox snap sometime, and some
>> other desktop apps are snapped as well. Not bad. Even some KDE apps are
>> snapped and there is KDE Frameworks snap which might be a starting point to
>> offer Plasma Active as well.
>>
>> The new OS can and in my opinion should still be all about Ubuntu. Let's
>> correct some mistakes done before, but take all the bits that are still
>> alive and have in mind that Canoncal's work can still be a big help in
>> terms of the core.
>>
>> 2017-04-06 11:49 GMT+02:00 Andrew Penkrat <penkrat8@xxxxxxxxx>:
>>
>>> +1 for every point. I'd also suggest to consider using flatpak instead
>>> of snaps, but not sure if it's reasonable.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Andrew Penkrat
>>>
>>> On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 at 10:48 Piotrek Mitana <the.mail.of.mi2@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello, I'm new to here.
>>>>
>>>> Although I've not been active on mailing lists and on Google+, I've
>>>> been eagerly observing the Ubuntu Touch from the very beginning. I've also
>>>> bought a Meizu Pro 5 Ubuntu a few months ago and I am generally happy with
>>>> it (apart from some irritating bugs that Canonical never managed to fix -
>>>> mostly unreliable network connection and bettery-draining Wi-Fi).
>>>>
>>>> From the observations I would like to share my idea on how I see the
>>>> future for... well, let's call it Unity. Unity OS, Unity Desktop, Unity
>>>> Phone, whatever. I don't think I can help with development - at least not
>>>> now. But I hope that my voice expressed here will be able to get to the
>>>> developers that want to stay and help them find the way for the project.
>>>> I've also posted this on UbPorts forum, so that maybe it is more likely to
>>>> make its way to the devs.
>>>>
>>>> ## Let's still fight for convergence!
>>>> Yes. This is in my opinion the biggest selling point of Ubuntu Phones.
>>>> It's something new - something that others don't have yet. Ubuntu and Linux
>>>> in general has lots of great desktop aplications. The vision of having a PC
>>>> in our pockets it far too exciting to give it up.
>>>>
>>>> ## Ubuntu Core can still be a base
>>>> I believe that so-called Unity OS shouldn't part with Ubuntu. Canonical
>>>> is still pursuing the Ubuntu Core and Snaps and after leaving the phone and
>>>> tablet they will pursue that even faster. It's IoT what they chosen to
>>>> start earn bigger money on and Canonical's IoT is all about Ubuntu Core and
>>>> Snaps.
>>>>
>>>> ### The hardware
>>>> This implies two things: there are and will be devices and chips
>>>> OFFICIALLY supported by snaps. There is Raspberry Pi, there is Dragonboard
>>>> (so it's a Qualcomm Snapdragon in fact - not too far away from phones!).
>>>> This is why I believe the new devs should continue on what Canonical
>>>> started and not finished - moving the Ubuntu Phone and Tablet to Ubuntu
>>>> Core and Snaps.
>>>>
>>>> ### Ubuntu Personal
>>>> Also I believe that Ubuntu Personal concept (snap based desktop) should
>>>> still be on the list, so the "One OS to rule them all" still can be
>>>> created. I believe that snaps have still the potential to make up a secure
>>>> and reliable desktop with nice permission and dependency management that
>>>> Snap introduces.
>>>>
>>>> ### Clicks and debs are not an option
>>>> Why? Well, click was kind of beta for snaps. Canonical decied to move
>>>> away from this because they decided to create something better. And snaps
>>>> are what Canonical wants to give to the larger community, not only Ubuntu.
>>>>
>>>> Why not debs? To have the proper system images, OTA updates and a
>>>> possibility to lock the system partition. Without that probably no OEM ever
>>>> would consider the system reliable enough to put it on production device.
>>>> And well, commercial app developers will not want to care about the
>>>> dependencies in debs.
>>>>
>>>> ## The true Unity leads to Wayland
>>>> And here is the - what the history has shown - the Canonical's biggest
>>>> mistake: Mir. This is what put away the rest of the Linux community and
>>>> what created the most conflicts and hatered. Moving Unity to Wayland can
>>>> give you more traction and more developers willing to contribute to the
>>>> true Unity on phone. And there is one more thing that community had the
>>>> problem with and now you can ditch: Contributor License Agreement.
>>>>
>>>> ## Unity 8
>>>> The concept of Unity 8 is pretty good for all the phones tablets and
>>>> desktop. I really like many features of it and the general concept of phone
>>>> navigation. Also the scopes are a good concept - but they need to start
>>>> working much faster and better. Let's make them ALL freely installable, so
>>>> that anyone could install only those he uses. That will generate some
>>>> benefits:
>>>>
>>>> * The community will not hate us for forcing scopes on users
>>>> * The OEM's could install their scopes of their choice by default -
>>>> customization, ability to sell things with this - more likely to
>>>> comercially back the Unity OS.
>>>> * Well, the scopes developed to work well would be a wonderful way to
>>>> interact with the content.
>>>>
>>>> And there is one more - Suru design. Ubuntu's font, paperlike themes
>>>> and iconset. Please do not ditch that as Unity 8 looks really well and the
>>>> theme, icons and design language is really nice!
>>>>
>>>> ## Not only Unity 8
>>>> As snaps have actually gained some adoption, they can be used to get on
>>>> Ubuntu Core not only Unity, but KDE and Plasma Active for example - and
>>>> maybe other DE's as well. A Wayland on top of Ubuntu Core can create a
>>>> wonderful base for both Unity and Plasma Active. Let's reach the hand to
>>>> Plasma Active developers, offer them Snaps and Ubuntu Core as base. Maybe
>>>> they will help in getting Core and Wayland on phones and it would lead us
>>>> to the common goal - having both Unity and Plasma Active on the phones. And
>>>> being able to replace one with another with just a snap swap!
>>>>
>>>> ## Ubuntu SDK
>>>> Yet another thing to keep. There is a bunch of cool apps creating with
>>>> it (Dekko, uNav and more) to be kept. It still may help to reach the
>>>> convergene goal.
>>>>
>>>> ## To sum up
>>>> So what do we have now? We have Ubuntu Core, we have Snaps and we have
>>>> Wayland. We have the communities that will develop those and offload the
>>>> Unity OS's dev team, so that they don't have to develop the entire OS
>>>> alone. Maybe we have Mir (if Canonical still wants to push it to Ubuntu
>>>> Core devices), but without Canonical it won't make sense.
>>>>
>>>> So let's take care of Unity 8 and Ubuntu SDK, move it further toward
>>>> snappification and Ubuntu Core, make a switch to Wayland and pursue the
>>>> convergence further.
>>>>
>>>> So this is how I see it. Let's create the true Unity - untiy of
>>>> community with Wayland and the unity of platforms with Convergence. I still
>>>> keep my fingers crossed for you, guys. And maybe someday I will be able to
>>>> jump in as well?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Piotr Mitana
>>>> --
>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>> Post to     : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to     : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
> --
>
> Kristijan Žic
>