unity-design team mailing list archive

["frederik.nnaji@xxxxxxxxx" <frederik.nnaji@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 19:34, zekopeko <zekopeko@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 6:46 PM, frederik.nnaji@xxxxxxxxx
> <frederik.nnaji@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > Hi Zekopeko,
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 17:52, zekopeko <zekopeko@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Frederik Nnaji
> >> <frederik.nnaji@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> > On Mon, 2010-12-27 at 17:18 +0100, zekopeko wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> I suggest you look at Divvy[1]. Looks like a really nice way of
> >> >> marrying a tilling manager to a non-tilling manager.
> >> >
> >> > thanks!
> >> > divvy is cool, we had that before in a months old Ayatana thread iirc,
> >> > and i think i liked it already for its inspirational power back then
> ;)
> >> >
> >> >> If it was up to me I would copy Aero Snap when dragging to the edge
> >> >
> >> > Aero Snap features are already outdated, when you get to check Compiz
> >> > Grid plugin in Natty, try it!
> >> >
> >> >> and would put a windicator for Divvy-clone on the right in the title
> >> >> bar. Pressing the
> >> >> button would produce a Divvy-widget allowing you to tile the window.
> >> >
> >> > Why clone if you can understand, abstract, learn, do it better?
> >> > What is the main functionality of divvy? Painless window resizing to a
> >> > grid.
> >> >
> >> > Now lets just enable a grid by default, snapping windows to it
> >> > automatically upon resize, move and perhaps also upon scale. To
> override
> >> > the snap-to-grid, just enable a modifier such as ALT or CTRL or SUPER,
> >> > which would actually make a good metaphor for "float", since "super"
> is
> >> > the latin word for over/above.
> >> >
> >> > Wouldn't that be sufficiently innovative and useful to justify *not*
> >> > cloning other stuff ("taillight syndrome")?
> >> >
> >> > There was another thread about the Window Picker (Compiz Scale) being
> >> > initiated if you click on a launcher, even when it has only one
> window.
> >> > Why not rotate three functions on the launchers:
> >> > * raise & focus
> >> > * spread exposé
> >> > * tile for dual-pane mode, as i mocked up above.
> >> >
> >> > if you're interested, i can scheme up how i imagine the "tile for
> >> > dual-pane mode" scenario in detail.. but i think the dual pane thing
> is
> >> > for the other thread (tiling and floating WM)
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Grid is really nice, very Aero-snappy. The problem is that resizing
> >> stuff via mouse is limited to half-screen-ing. You can't do a 1/3 or
> >> 2/3 via mouse.
> >
> > yop, that's unfortunate.
> >
> >>
> >> Then there is the problem of your snapping to grid
> >> during resize since the window border in the light-themes is pretty
> >> much non-existent. We will get a resize grip in the lower right via
> >> GTK3 but that still pretty much limits the side on which you can
> >> resize so you  have to move the window and then resize it then move it
> >> again to where you want it.
> >
> > true, but we'll get more than a resize grip. there'll be an invisibly
> > extended window border, and i think there'll also be efforts to add more
> > than the gtk3 handle to the window border, where appropriate, so that you
> > can resize your window, grabbing it by any one of its borders.
> >
> >>
> >> That's why I think that a Divvy-windicator approach would be better.
> >
> > Of course Divvy's feature set makes it "better" than the feature set we
> are
> > currently exposed to.
> >
> >>
> >> It's would be visual so you can now how much space you are giving the
> >> window easily and it's mouse accessible.
>
> >
> > visual.. yeah, as in "visible". there are a lot of features that become
> > "visible" by the change of a flag from =FALSE to =TRUE in compiz, we
> don't
> > need to reimplement a third party proprietary system, which btw is a
> > copyright violation, in order to achieve accessible ways of resizing
> windows
> > in the linux desktop.
>
> It's incorrect that implementing a Divvy clone would be a copyright
> violation. For that to happen you would actually need to copy the
> code. Functionality isn't covered by copyright AFAIK only the specific
> product.
>

yeah, that might be correct, yet i was speaking in more general terms.
The introduction of concepts such as "patent" and "copyright" was only
possible, because we know what inbreeding does to a population of thoughts:
the population loses its diversity and dies.

Grid itself was inspired by a different system, not Aero Snap, not Divvy, so
IF anyone's rights were violated by making a clone, it would most certainly
be the rights of he-who-has-the-better-lawyers-first.
Please don't misunderstand my tone, i have nothing against cloning and
copying! It's just that my guts are telling me we can do it better than
Divvy, because i believe strongly that we won't need a titlebar widget, once
we progress a little bit further down the creative path. Our solution will
be more automagic than Divvy's, which requires calling an extra widget and
opening yet-another-control-interface for window managing.


> Either way it's a good way to expose window resizing and tiling
> functionality to end users. Changing "flags" doesn't mean that we are
> exposing the functionality in a user friendly way.
>

changing flags makes stuff visible to you as a thinker and contributor, i
was not thinking of any consumers here.

> The concept behind this is called Biodiversity¹, without it, we wouldn't
> > exist.
> >
> > ¹ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiversity
>
> I fail to see why my suggested approach wouldn't work in Ubuntu. It's
> not tied to functionality that exists on a Mac but not on Ubuntu.
>

i didn't say that, i think your idea is quite brilliant, and i would love to
have such functionality, if it's easier to achieve than more organic ideas.

Questions to implement the core functionality desired in this thread:
1 GNOME Terminal resizes in steps, how can we make all windows resize in
steps?
2 How would one manipulate the grid for such steps?
3 How would adjacent windows represent their common borders?
4 Will rounded window corners still look nice on tiled windows? (
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/694302)
5 Are the current ideas for increasing the grab-area of window borders
sufficient? (field testing required)

anyone?