unity-design team mailing list archive

[Ralph Green <sirable@xxxxxxxxx>]

On 5/22/11, Ed Lin <edlin280@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 6:02 AM, Ralph Green <sirable@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>  If this is some kind of principle that guides the decision to use
>> the global menu, then it is time to change.  I am quite experienced
>> with the mouse and how to use it.  I use as much acceleration as is
>> reasonable.  It would not be an improvement to have the mouse go
>> twitching away out of control, which is what happens if I speed it up
>> more than it is now.  So, the distance is not irrelevant.  If Fitt's
>> Law is considered important, how can the distance be irrelevant?  It
>> is one of the variables that most drives the result.  If you ignore
>> distance, you are not using Fitt's Law, but rather an arbitrary
>> derivation of it.
>
> I claim no expertise in Fitts's Law or mathematics but I'll try...
>
> Because one part of the equation becomes infinity the distance can be
> ignored (distance/∞). On very large screen it's likely faster to
  This was the mistake I expected the people who push for a global
menu would have made.  There is a case when a larger value for the
target makes some sense.  But, it should not be much larger.  I show
in my own case how there is no additional value which should be
applied to the edge of the screen.  A system should optimize for it's
most frequent case, but good design also be usable in less frequent
cases.  Lots of people use VMs and vnc to remote computers.  I may do
it more than most, but I am certainly not unique.
  If you use the value of about 2 inches that Jef Raskin supposedly
suggested, then the additional distance I have to travel to get to a
global menu is significant.

>
>
> On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 7:28 AM, Ralph Green <sirable@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>  I spend most of my time running
>> virtual machines or vnc sessions to machines on my network.  The edge
>> of their screens is somewhere in the middle of the screen on my host
>> machine.  So, global menus may hurt me much more than a typical user.
>>  I do this even on an isolated machine.  I like the ability to
>> checkpoint the filesystem on the virtual machines and isolate any
>> errors to a VM that I can replace or roll back.
>>   I am guessing the average user does not do this as much.  I setup
>> client machines this way fairly often, but I don't remember running
>> across anyone else who did it on their own.
>
> ssh and automation with scripts ;)
> But really, this is nothing the designers of Unity should or could
> take care of. I'd put that into the hands of the devs of your favorite
> VM and remote desktop solutions.
 ssh and scripts are not useful for most of my use.  I use them
already when appropriate.  As just one example, I vnc to one computer
where I run VLC to play podcasts and run bittorrents of Linux isos
with transmission.  VNC is the best way to do that.
 Another virtual machine runs Miro and is the closest thing I have to
a TV.  ssh and scripts would not do anything for me there.
  Unity 2d may be usable on those machines and I'll try it when it is
ready.  If it uses global menus, there is virtually no chance I will
do more than a small test.
  Most of my usage is testing programs that run on a gui.  I build
clean virtual machines for the test and connect to them with vnc.
Scripts and ssh are useless for what I do.
 The Unity devs should be cognizant of how a Linux desktop is used.
Their design should be one that does not drive away users just because
they are not the dominant case.  One reason I can do a good job at
local Linux outreach events answering questions about doing stuff in
Linux and Ubuntu is that I use it so much.  I am not convinced that
driving away users like myself benefits Ubuntu.  That is why I am
engaging in this conversation.  I think Ubuntu is worth the effort.

>
> You know you can also trap your mouse in a window or run another
> system on a separate virtual desktop?
  Yes, and it is always annoying when I accidentally trap the mouse
like that.  I often use several virtual desktop windows.  Running in
another virtual window would not help unless I ran it full screen
there and I practically never run in what I call moron mode.