unity-design team mailing list archive

[staticd <staticd.growthecommons@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 10:49 AM, James Jenner <james.g.jenner@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:

>
> On 1 November 2011 12:44, Jo-Erlend Schinstad <
> joerlend.schinstad@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Den 01. nov. 2011 02:22, skrev James Jenner:
>>
>> Optional means sometimes. Intermittent functionality means confusion.
>> Also, for this to be useful, the notifications would have to stay on screen
>> permanently. Otherwise, you still wouldn't be able to interact with it
>> unless you reacted quickly. Thunderbird has or had this. I hated the way it
>> made me feel like the computers property. "Stop everything you're doing
>> right now, because you only have ten seconds to comply with this
>> notification". I was just waiting for it to tell me something like "This
>> user has performed an illegal operation and must go to bed hungry". Not
>> good! :)
>>
>
> Adding the ability to click on a notification to show the application (or
> associated application) that created the notification doesn't mean that the
> notification should be permanent. To me the way the notification is
> displayed shouldn't change at all (other than possibly the fade out affect
> when you mouse over, I don't really understand the purpose of that). There
> is no rush, a notification just lets a user know that something that the
> user may be interested in has occurred and offers another approach to how
> they can action the notification. The user can then elect (if they're
> present) to click on it. No rush, if they don't notice then other
> mechanisms to tell them what happened are available.
>
> However I understand where your coming from and creating multiple ways to
> open an application based on a notification may not be a good idea. Keeping
> it all in the launcher is maybe a better idea so it's centralised and the
> user only has to go to one place to open anything related to an
> application. This would add some complexity if you have multiple
> applications open but one has had a notification, how do you select the app
> that has the notification? double click? right mouse and via menu? Maybe a
> little pulsing bar next to the icon that you can click (I'm just throwing
> up ideas). Hmm that also raises the question as to whether there should be
> a special version of alt tab combination for tabbing through applications
> that have notification (most prob an extreme case but thought I'd through
> it out there).
>
>
>> You get a notification which does not require nor accept any actions.
>> However, directly above the notification, you have a permanent reminder
>> that there is something to react to. Click it, and you'll see a list of
>> recent notifications and clicking it will show the appropriate application
>> in the appropriate way. So the feature is actually there, only implemented
>> in a less obtrusive way. If you're been away from your keyboard for a
>> while, then you can click once to get a full overview in a list and react
>> to the things you like, instead of having to close lots of notifications.
>
>
> Umm.. the notifications I get on ubuntu never have a permanent reminder
> above them... AFAIK. I've never noticed anything, that is for sure. I'm
> mainly getting notifications from torrent downloader, a chat program for a
> game, etc. From memory i don't even get a flashing icon on the launcher.
>
> I wouldn't want notifications to hang around. Though a tool to list all
> the most recent notifications would be nice, or not.
>
> That something happens infrequently is probably _the_ biggest problem in
>> IT. "I clicked the search field in Nautilus and then my system restarted".
>> Because the notification was that you needed to reboot for the updates to
>> be installed. But because that would happen so very infrequently, the user
>> would never get that answered and the bug would never be closed.
>
>
> Ahh yes, dialog boxes that pop up and take focus while your typing and the
> keystroke activates the ok or cancel or whatever. damn annoying behaviour
> of some apps under windows. Actually any application that takes over focus
> unexpectedly is so damn annoying. I've never experienced this problem under
> ubuntu though. As for notifications, to me they should never take focus,
> just be visible, so the only risk would be clicking the mouse in the spot
> the notification appears.
>
>
>> You shouldn't choose between them. When you get an email, then you should
>> get a short notification that doesn't accept any action, and you should get
>> a permanent indication that both accepts and invites the proper actions.
>
>
> In your opinion that is, I'm still inclined to clickable notifications, I
> find the ones for outlook under xp (I presume the same for other flavours
> of windows) to be very useful in their interactivity. But I'm used to how
> they behave, other people's experience my differ.
>
>
>> I don't really understand what you mean by intrusion in this context.
>> You're supposed to add those statuses for apps, but they're statuses you
>> look for. You can press and hold super to get an overview. How far have
>> that file copy process come, how many unread emails to I have, how many
>> updates, how long until the update is complete, etc. So they're not not
>> notifications, they're not indications, but they're statuses that you
>> actively look for. In  other words, these are four separate ways of
>> displaying information.
>
>
> I was talking more about when the launcher hides due to a window intruding
> into the side pane's space. And I do like the new information like progress
> on the side bar/launcher (whatever the correct term is), it's nice to see
> it improving. Not sure about the bar used for the countdown widget though
> (from omubuntu), seemed a bit messy to look at imho. but for installing,
> copying, etc, absolutely beautiful as in the app is busy doing X and this
> the progress. So nice.
>
>
>
>> You would have to move the mouse over, wait for the launcher to appear,
>> scan the launcher to find the appropriate application and then select the
>> app (more complicated if you have more than one instance open?).
>>
>>  I think the urgent window would be opened first. At least I think that
>> should be the case.
>
>
> Yup, agree. Though this does raise issues on multi clicks and which one
> opens. Which I know is getting a tad complicated.
>
>  I cannot test right now (as I'm at work) but does a notification stop you
>> from clicking on something behind it?
>>
>>  Yes, the whole point of making the notifications that way is that you
>> get notified, but you continue to do what you're doing, so it's only
>> presented for a short time and goes away. You can't click notifications.
>> The clicks will go to the app underneath. The indicator is there so you
>> don't forget. That's where you handle the thing that's happened, but you do
>> it when you feel it's right to do so, not when the computer tells you to.
>
>
> What I meant was how does the notification currently behave? I see it on
> the top left (well down about 1 inch from the top on my screen) and if i
> mouse over it kinda fades out but it stops the countdown for when it
> disapears (or pauses it) which then resumes once I move my mouse away. It's
> good because it makes it clear that I cannot click on it (which I cannot),
> but I've never tried clicking on it to see if the mouse click is sent to
> whatever is behind where the notification is displayed. I was just asking
> does it parse the mouse click through to apps behind it or not?
>
>
>>  I should note that accessibility should be considered as well (I'm
>>> thinking of quadriplegics and paraplegics who have dexterity issues).
>>>
>>>
>> Absolutely, and that's what the keyboard is for. Press F10 to focus
>> menus, navigate with arrow keys and activate items by pressing enter.
>
>
> I was thinking of people who use sticks via their mouth to use their
> computer and lack fine motor skills for various reasons. Anything that
> reduces mouse clicks or keyboard presses greatly helps them.
>
> Cheers,
>
> James.
>
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My 2 cents:
1)As I understand it there are three (what is the fourth?) methods of
presenting info to the users:
a)Notifications: appear on the screen, don't steal input focus, clicking
them clicks the background.
b)indicators on the top bar: invite and allow action. always visible.
c)Status data on the sidebar: users look for them.

2)I agree that notifications should not steal input focus. However, they
will (and are meant to ) get the attention of the user.
How about this Idea:

After a customisable delay(say 2sec) of being displayed the mouse over
behaviour of the notification changes to show two buttons: one to carry out
whatever actions are associated with the notification the other to banish
the notification.

The delay will prevent the accidental clicking of notifications.
The banish button will help get rid of distracting notifications.

See the attached mockup

Attachment: notifications idea.png
Description: PNG image