coapp-developers team mailing list archive

[Garrett Serack <garretts@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Howdy ya'll,

>> For example, I may need to install more than one of the same application on a system in different locations

Understandable, and I'd recommend symlinks.

>> Or, I may want to have a third-party application bundled with one I'm distributing,

Bundling can be provided for with custom local ATOM repository feeds. (we'll cover that quite a bit later.) If you are wholeheartedly consuming another application, that's starting to drift outside the scope of CoApp. I'd need to see a much larger scenario before I venture further.

>> and deliberately keep it segregated from anything else that might happen on the environment

What exactly do you mean "segregated". ACLs work nice for controlling access to stuff.

>> That being said, if your base Windows installation drive barely supports Windows then you probably have bigger issues to worry about.

Indeed. CoApp's method of solving some problems will come at a cost-some disk space. Now, I'm not going to waste disk space willy-nilly (and by having fine-grained packaging, you'd be surprised how much disk space we're actually saving. (Big packages + updatable == massive disk space).

It's possible that we'll have the ability to allow the end user to set COAPP_ROOT  and/or PGMFILES_ROOT, however I classify those as "nice-to-have" and it is distinctly possible that will come later rather than earlier.

My biggest concern is not flexibility, but reliability and sustainability. Flexibility is nice, but it's also the devil's playground. :D

G

Garrett Serack | Open Source Software Developer | Microsoft Corporation
I don't make the software you use; I make the software you use better on Windows.

From: coapp-developers-bounces+garretts=microsoft.com@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:coapp-developers-bounces+garretts=microsoft.com@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Nasser Dassi
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 6:28 AM
To: Andreas Schwanke
Cc: coapp-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Coapp-developers] Strictness of the Directory Structure

Although deliberate customizations are nice-to-haves, CoApp (to my understanding) is not your average application installation.  It wishes to be viewed as an open-source oriented add-on to Windows environments -- somewhere between a regular software application and the base Windows files.  Heck, it will probably evolve to become another set of check-boxes in the Windows Features of the Add/Remove Programs control panel.

That being said, if your base Windows installation drive barely supports Windows then you probably have bigger issues to worry about.

I would encourage viewing CoApp as the go-to for dependency libraries for open-source software on Windows (similar to the dependency nature of the .NET Framework or DirectX) and NOT as just another binary installation experience.  Let's keep in mind that, as of right now, its nature is not a series of dialog boxes for a casual user to use... rather, it will be the repository OTHER installers would rely upon to make sure specific versions of libraries are, in fact, installed alongside the core application files.

- nasser
On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 3:16 AM, Andreas Schwanke <andreas.schwanke@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:andreas.schwanke@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
In Windows applications it's a gernell ability to choose the root directory for your application. I think it should be possible for CoApp users to set this base directory in order to be most flexible. But for the general user, the standard directories for Windows should be uses as the default behaviour.

Best regards,
Andreas

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: coapp-developers-bounces+jackdornothing=projectalpha.de<http://projectalpha.de>@lists.launchpad.net<http://lists.launchpad.net> [mailto:coapp-developers-bounces+jackdornothing<mailto:coapp-developers-bounces%2Bjackdornothing>=projectalpha.de<http://projectalpha.de>@lists.launchpad.net<http://lists.launchpad.net>] Im Auftrag von Timothy Procter
Gesendet: Freitag, 16. April 2010 04:47
An: coapp-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:coapp-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Betreff: [Coapp-developers] Strictness of the Directory Structure
I'm fairly new to this mailing list, so maybe this has already been discussed, but I'm a bit concerned that we're being too strict with the directory locations.

There absolutely needs to be a well thought out standard for where everything goes. This should be the default behaviour for any use of the tool. Otherwise, we quickly evolve into chaos with every developer or user choosing a different alternative that becomes very difficult to manage.

The caution is that there are always edge cases were you need something a little different. There should be some way to allow non-default behaviour. Otherwise we're quickly limiting the use of the tool for certain applications.

For example, I may need to install more than one of the same application on a system in different locations. Or, I may want to have a third-party application bundled with one I'm distributing, and deliberately keep it segregated from anything else that might happen on the environment. This is a common practice for highly sensitive production servers.

Internally, using 'lib','bin','doc', etc works for most implementations.
But sometimes an application warrants something else. The developer should be able to modify the defaults if needed.

I like what I've seen so far for suggestions regarding a standard, but if there's no flexibility, we'll be turning people away.

Appreciate any feedback,
Tim Procter

--
Look for Paul & Alex at Collaborate 2010 presenting "Worst Practices of IT Outsourcing". To meet with either, send a note to events@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:events@xxxxxxxxxxx>



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