dhis2-documenters team mailing list archive

[Jason Pickering <jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Knut,

If it would get you writing some docs, it would be well worth it. :)

Seriously though, these are floating licenses, so they would be good for
more than 5 people. We have two dedicated technical writers now, but up
until now, there have been few people actually writing the docs. So, these
five licenses would go a long way.

Regards,
Jason


On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 5:21 PM, Knut Staring <knutst@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> 200$/month for 5 people, that is.
>
> Not saying that price may not be worth paying if it helps productivity.
>
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Knut Staring <knutst@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Did you not have to sign up for the free trial license?
>> Our free trial includes all of the features of Oxygen XML Web Author for
>> a maximum of 30 days
>>
>> Seems to be 200 USD per month?
>>
>> oXygen XML Web Author uses a subscription floating license model with a
>> minimum commitment period of 12 months.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 10:08 AM, Jason Pickering <
>> jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> I found what looks like a too-good-to-be-true WebApp version of Oxygen
>>> from the Google Play Store, which offers integration with GitHub. It seems
>>> to work. Might offer a new editor to replace my beloved deprecated Serna.
>>> You can try it out by adding oXygen XML WebApp extension to Chrome.
>>> Seems pretty sweet, but not sure if this is just a demo or something which
>>> is actually fully functional and free?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Jason
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Bob Jolliffe <bobjolliffe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://docbkx-tools.sourceforge.net/docbkx-samples/manual.html seems
>>>> to suggest 5.0 is now supported.
>>>>
>>>> One of the features i have seen touted in 5.1 which is also part of
>>>> DITA (and no doubt Flare) is support for "topics".  I guess the idea
>>>> here, to use the elearning jargon, is to be able to make reusabale
>>>> learning objects which can be differently combined in scorm modules
>>>> and the like.
>>>>
>>>> I do agree that at the moment the priority really should be more and
>>>> improved content.  While we have that content in docbook xxx xml we
>>>> know that it is not going to be lost and can be shimmied into whatever
>>>> the toolchain of the future might be.  In fact i am regretting getting
>>>> involved in this thread at all, but I am glad you got rid of the Serna
>>>> free comments :-)  Back to work.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8 April 2016 at 04:13, Jason Pickering <jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > Hi Bob,
>>>> >
>>>> > Again, I think the fact that docbook has moved on is to us, not so
>>>> > important. We are using a very small subset of what docbook offers,
>>>> and
>>>> > there are no real differences between 4.4 and 5.0 for our purposes,
>>>> at least
>>>> > which I have seen. One issue which we should investigate more is the
>>>> > supposed improved indexing in 5.0, which I have not been able to get
>>>> to
>>>> > work.
>>>> >
>>>> > The major issue with upgrading the dependency from 4.4 to 4.5 of
>>>> docbook
>>>> > seems to be the lack of a publicly available maven artifact for
>>>> either 4.4
>>>> > or 5.0. We could of course build it ourselves, or try and find
>>>> somewhere
>>>> > where its actually available, but since I managed to get this
>>>> combination
>>>> > working, I never really investigated it further.
>>>> >
>>>> > So again to emphasize, the reason we are using 4.4 is because of the
>>>> tool
>>>> > chain (docbkx) and getting that to work with either Docbook 4.5 or
>>>> 5.0.
>>>> >
>>>> > Regards,
>>>> > Jason
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Bob Jolliffe <bobjolliffe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Jason I saw your sed script to remove comments.  That is that problem
>>>> >> solved :-)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I don't have any problem with the docbook toolchain and wouldn't
>>>> >> lightly consider changing it.  I think it works well.  There is some
>>>> >> learning involved and a shortage of non-technical tooling but yet it
>>>> >> works well.  I would consider upgrading to 5.0 (or 5.1) as that might
>>>> >> widen the scope of tooling available and would be relatively
>>>> painless.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> But I agree that we need to focus on the concrete requirements rather
>>>> >> than products.  And most of all, the content.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 7 April 2016 at 14:40, Jason Pickering <
>>>> jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >> > Perhaps, but see my earlier mail regarding framework wars.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > This is the same discussion we are having about testing, use this
>>>> >> > framework
>>>> >> > or that framework. However, there are still too few tests, as no
>>>> one can
>>>> >> > agree.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > We have something which works. We have content which needs to be
>>>> >> > improved
>>>> >> > and updated. If there is a compelling reason to move away from
>>>> something
>>>> >> > which, albeit somewhat dated ...works, maybe it would be good to
>>>> outline
>>>> >> > the
>>>> >> > reasons for this change.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:21 PM, Knut Staring <knutst@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> I see that Flare supports DITA, would that be a good alternative
>>>> to
>>>> >> >> DocBook?
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> http://dita.xml.org/
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Bob Jolliffe <
>>>> bobjolliffe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >> >> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> On a spectrum between low-level standardized technical docbook
>>>> through
>>>> >> >>> to "user friendly" (use Word), vendor-locked proprietary and
>>>> patent
>>>> >> >>> encumbered technology, this one seems to fall on the far right
>>>> :-)
>>>> >> >>> Not quite what I had in mind.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> I can see the attraction but I would be very wary to go in this
>>>> >> >>> direction.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> On 7 April 2016 at 13:52, Rachael Brooke <rachael@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >> >>> > Hi everyone,
>>>> >> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> > Cecilia and I have been thinking about trying out a new tool
>>>> that
>>>> >> >>> > could
>>>> >> >>> > handle big documentation projects, translation files and other
>>>> >> >>> > resources. So
>>>> >> >>> > it's good timing that this issue is being raised by you.
>>>> >> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> > We were considering looking into a solution which you may know,
>>>> >> >>> > called
>>>> >> >>> > MadCap Flare: http://www.madcapsoftware.com/products/flare/.
>>>> >> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> > If you have any other suggestions, we'd be happy to hear your
>>>> >> >>> > thoughts.
>>>> >> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> > Thanks for bringing this up - we're investigating!
>>>> >> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> > Rachael
>>>> >> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Knut Staring <knutst@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> >
>>>> >> >>> > wrote:
>>>> >> >>> >>
>>>> >> >>> >> Would be good to hear from our new documentation experts
>>>> (Rachael
>>>> >> >>> >> and
>>>> >> >>> >> Cecilia) on this issue (what kinds of tools they would be
>>>> >> >>> >> comfortable
>>>> >> >>> >> with
>>>> >> >>> >> etc).
>>>> >> >>> >>
>>>> >> >>> >> Knut
>>>> >> >>> >>
>>>> >> >>> >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Bob Jolliffe
>>>> >> >>> >> <bobjolliffe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >> >>> >> wrote:
>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> Hi Jason, Lars
>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> I am not sure the link about oxygen nested comments is really
>>>> >> >>> >>> addressing the "thing".
>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> I agree with Lars that having the "<!-- Created by Serna
>>>> Free -->"
>>>> >> >>> >>> text inserted into all our documents is ugly, wrong and
>>>> >> >>> >>> misleading.
>>>> >> >>> >>> If you are using Serna Free I think it might be a simple
>>>> courtesy
>>>> >> >>> >>> to
>>>> >> >>> >>> just strip those comments before committing.  Of course its
>>>> >> >>> >>> possible
>>>> >> >>> >>> to forget and maybe some sort of removal hook could be
>>>> configured
>>>> >> >>> >>> automatically (sed, xsltproc ..) but its maybe not so hard
>>>> to just
>>>> >> >>> >>> delete the line.
>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> I am not sure of what the problem is with oxygen encountering
>>>> >> >>> >>> these
>>>> >> >>> >>> comments are though.  Maybe I also don't get the "thing"
>>>> :-)  I
>>>> >> >>> >>> open
>>>> >> >>> >>> the docbook files with oxygen and don't encounter a problem
>>>> >> >>> >>> related
>>>> >> >>> >>> to
>>>> >> >>> >>> the comment.  The docbook4 "type" seems to be immediately
>>>> >> >>> >>> recognized
>>>> >> >>> >>> and I get a Docbook4 menu appear when I switch to author mode
>>>> >> >>> >>> whether
>>>> >> >>> >>> the comment is there or not.  Is it an oxygen version issue
>>>> (I
>>>> >> >>> >>> currently use 17.1) or is there some other issue I am
>>>> missing?
>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> Though I think there are deeper issues at play.  First is
>>>> that
>>>> >> >>> >>> Serna
>>>> >> >>> >>> Free seems no longer to be maintained (as a free version).
>>>> One
>>>> >> >>> >>> consequence of this being that using it keeps us frozen in
>>>> time at
>>>> >> >>> >>> docbook 4.4.  The last release of the docbook 4.x series was
>>>> 4.5
>>>> >> >>> >>> back
>>>> >> >>> >>> in 2006.  The 5.0 (and now 5.1) series has been out for
>>>> quite a
>>>> >> >>> >>> long
>>>> >> >>> >>> time now (2009?).  AFAIK the only reason for sticking with
>>>> 4.x has
>>>> >> >>> >>> been the availability of Serna Free.
>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> (Which is not a small thing.  The sad truth is that  another
>>>> good
>>>> >> >>> >>> free
>>>> >> >>> >>> candidate for docbook editing by non-technical authors
>>>> hasn't ever
>>>> >> >>> >>> emerged.  Of course if you are more than a bit geeky then
>>>> emacs
>>>> >> >>> >>> does
>>>> >> >>> >>> a
>>>> >> >>> >>> good job.  But even I don't use emacs anymore for editing
>>>> docbook
>>>> >> >>> >>> documents.  I use oxygen, which is not free.)
>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> Two thoughts come to mind:
>>>> >> >>> >>> (i) it probably really makes sense to rejoin the (docbook)
>>>> world
>>>> >> >>> >>> and
>>>> >> >>> >>> move from 4.4 to 5.0.  Particularly if the now defunct Serna
>>>> Free
>>>> >> >>> >>> is
>>>> >> >>> >>> the only factor holding us back.  I understand that there are
>>>> >> >>> >>> transforms available to make this a painless journey.  The
>>>> best
>>>> >> >>> >>> available in terms of free editing tools with a strong
>>>> docbook
>>>> >> >>> >>> focus
>>>> >> >>> >>> seems to be the eclipse DEP4E plugin.  Otherwise there are
>>>> the
>>>> >> >>> >>> non-free tools as well as host of xml schema aware editors.
>>>> >> >>> >>> Admittedly none of these really qualify as eminently
>>>> suitable for
>>>> >> >>> >>> non-technical authors so the problem isn't really completely
>>>> >> >>> >>> solved,
>>>> >> >>> >>> but maybe improved slightly.
>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> (ii) more radically, it might be time to consider moving from
>>>> >> >>> >>> docbook
>>>> >> >>> >>> altogether.  There are a host of "cool" alternatives
>>>> (markdown and
>>>> >> >>> >>> friends) none of which I am fond of, but they have
>>>> enthusiastic
>>>> >> >>> >>> supporters.  To me they all seem like endless reinventions of
>>>> >> >>> >>> roff/nroff/groff and certainly lack the maturity of
>>>> docbook.   But
>>>> >> >>> >>> maybe the world has moved to a stage that its possible to
>>>> consider
>>>> >> >>> >>> editing html5/css3 documents directly?  Certainly there is
>>>> >> >>> >>> considerable user friendly editing tools available.  And
>>>> >> >>> >>> conversion
>>>> >> >>> >>> to
>>>> >> >>> >>> pdf seems not to be a problem.  Though whether this would
>>>> cause
>>>> >> >>> >>> the
>>>> >> >>> >>> clean structure of documents to descend into anarchy I don't
>>>> >> >>> >>> really
>>>> >> >>> >>> know.
>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> My 2 cents.  I would certainly advocate (i) above (though
>>>> admit
>>>> >> >>> >>> its a
>>>> >> >>> >>> strong response to just getting rid of Serna Free
>>>> comments).  (ii)
>>>> >> >>> >>> frightens me quite a bit. Certainly would be a lot of work.
>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> In the end comes down to (i) who will do most of the
>>>> documentation
>>>> >> >>> >>> and
>>>> >> >>> >>> what do they like or tolerate, (ii) what effort is justified
>>>> to
>>>> >> >>> >>> fiddle
>>>> >> >>> >>> with what is really quite a nice looking set of existing
>>>> >> >>> >>> documentation.
>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> For the moment lets at least agree to keep those horrible
>>>> comments
>>>> >> >>> >>> out.
>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> Bob
>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> On 6 April 2016 at 11:31, Jason Pickering
>>>> >> >>> >>> <jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >> >>> >>> wrote:
>>>> >> >>> >>> > For instance, perhaps this
>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> >>> > http://www.oxygenxml.com/forum/topic3658.html
>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> >>> > which seems to describe a means of getting around comments.
>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> >>> > On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Jason Pickering
>>>> >> >>> >>> > <jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> Hi Lars,
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> I think there must be a way around this, and I would not
>>>> be in
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> favor
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> at
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> all of ditching Serna. Its a good tool and not everyone
>>>> has
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> access
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> to
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> a
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> relatively expensive commercial tool like Oxygen.
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> Serna Free inserts this automatically unfortunately when
>>>> it
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> saves
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> the
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> document, but lets look for a look around to deal with
>>>> this in
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> Oxygen.
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> Regards,
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> Jason
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Lars Helge Øverland
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> <lars@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> wrote:
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Hi,
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> re the documentation.The Serna editor horribly inserts a
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> <!-- Created by Serna Free -->
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> comment in all files it creates before the DTD. This
>>>> throws
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> off
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Oxygen
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> from detecting it to be a Docbook format. Lets not use
>>>> Serna
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> anymore
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> or at
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> least make sure we don't get comments in the beginning of
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> docbook
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> xml
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> files.
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Lars
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> --
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Lars Helge Øverland
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Lead developer, DHIS 2
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> University of Oslo
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Skype: larshelgeoverland
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> http://www.dhis2.org
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Post to     : dhis2-documenters@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >> >>> >>> >>
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> --
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> Jason P. Pickering
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> >> >>> >>> >> tel:+46764147049
>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> >>> > --
>>>> >> >>> >>> > Jason P. Pickering
>>>> >> >>> >>> > email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> >> >>> >>> > tel:+46764147049
>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >>> >>> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters
>>>> >> >>> >>> > Post to     : dhis2-documenters@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> >> >>> >>> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters
>>>> >> >>> >>> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >>> >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters
>>>> >> >>> >>> Post to     : dhis2-documenters@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> >> >>> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters
>>>> >> >>> >>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>> >> >>> >>
>>>> >> >>> >>
>>>> >> >>> >>
>>>> >> >>> >>
>>>> >> >>> >> --
>>>> >> >>> >> Knut Staring
>>>> >> >>> >> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo
>>>> >> >>> >> Norway: +4791880522
>>>> >> >>> >> Skype: knutstar
>>>> >> >>> >> http://dhis2.org
>>>> >> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> --
>>>> >> >> Knut Staring
>>>> >> >> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo
>>>> >> >> Norway: +4791880522
>>>> >> >> Skype: knutstar
>>>> >> >> http://dhis2.org
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > --
>>>> >> > Jason P. Pickering
>>>> >> > email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> >> > tel:+46764147049
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Jason P. Pickering
>>>> > email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> > tel:+46764147049
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jason P. Pickering
>>> email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
>>> tel:+46764147049
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Knut Staring
>> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo
>> Norway: +4791880522
>> Skype: knutstar
>> http://dhis2.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Knut Staring
> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo
> Norway: +4791880522
> Skype: knutstar
> http://dhis2.org
>



-- 
Jason P. Pickering
email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
tel:+46764147049