dhis2-documenters team mailing list archive

[Morten Olav Hansen <morten@xxxxxxxxx>]

We already have university licenses for oXygen XML, maybe that also
entitles us to a license for the web version? (if you want to use that
instead)

-- 
Morten Olav Hansen
Senior Engineer, DHIS 2
University of Oslo
http://www.dhis2.org

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 4:42 PM, Jason Pickering <
jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hi Knut,
>
> If it would get you writing some docs, it would be well worth it. :)
>
> Seriously though, these are floating licenses, so they would be good for
> more than 5 people. We have two dedicated technical writers now, but up
> until now, there have been few people actually writing the docs. So, these
> five licenses would go a long way.
>
> Regards,
> Jason
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 5:21 PM, Knut Staring <knutst@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> 200$/month for 5 people, that is.
>>
>> Not saying that price may not be worth paying if it helps productivity.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Knut Staring <knutst@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Did you not have to sign up for the free trial license?
>>> Our free trial includes all of the features of Oxygen XML Web Author for
>>> a maximum of 30 days
>>>
>>> Seems to be 200 USD per month?
>>>
>>> oXygen XML Web Author uses a subscription floating license model with a
>>> minimum commitment period of 12 months.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 9, 2016 at 10:08 AM, Jason Pickering <
>>> jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I found what looks like a too-good-to-be-true WebApp version of Oxygen
>>>> from the Google Play Store, which offers integration with GitHub. It seems
>>>> to work. Might offer a new editor to replace my beloved deprecated Serna.
>>>> You can try it out by adding oXygen XML WebApp extension to Chrome.
>>>> Seems pretty sweet, but not sure if this is just a demo or something which
>>>> is actually fully functional and free?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Jason
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Apr 8, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Bob Jolliffe <bobjolliffe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> http://docbkx-tools.sourceforge.net/docbkx-samples/manual.html seems
>>>>> to suggest 5.0 is now supported.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the features i have seen touted in 5.1 which is also part of
>>>>> DITA (and no doubt Flare) is support for "topics".  I guess the idea
>>>>> here, to use the elearning jargon, is to be able to make reusabale
>>>>> learning objects which can be differently combined in scorm modules
>>>>> and the like.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do agree that at the moment the priority really should be more and
>>>>> improved content.  While we have that content in docbook xxx xml we
>>>>> know that it is not going to be lost and can be shimmied into whatever
>>>>> the toolchain of the future might be.  In fact i am regretting getting
>>>>> involved in this thread at all, but I am glad you got rid of the Serna
>>>>> free comments :-)  Back to work.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8 April 2016 at 04:13, Jason Pickering <jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > Hi Bob,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Again, I think the fact that docbook has moved on is to us, not so
>>>>> > important. We are using a very small subset of what docbook offers,
>>>>> and
>>>>> > there are no real differences between 4.4 and 5.0 for our purposes,
>>>>> at least
>>>>> > which I have seen. One issue which we should investigate more is the
>>>>> > supposed improved indexing in 5.0, which I have not been able to get
>>>>> to
>>>>> > work.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The major issue with upgrading the dependency from 4.4 to 4.5 of
>>>>> docbook
>>>>> > seems to be the lack of a publicly available maven artifact for
>>>>> either 4.4
>>>>> > or 5.0. We could of course build it ourselves, or try and find
>>>>> somewhere
>>>>> > where its actually available, but since I managed to get this
>>>>> combination
>>>>> > working, I never really investigated it further.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > So again to emphasize, the reason we are using 4.4 is because of the
>>>>> tool
>>>>> > chain (docbkx) and getting that to work with either Docbook 4.5 or
>>>>> 5.0.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Regards,
>>>>> > Jason
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Bob Jolliffe <bobjolliffe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Jason I saw your sed script to remove comments.  That is that
>>>>> problem
>>>>> >> solved :-)
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I don't have any problem with the docbook toolchain and wouldn't
>>>>> >> lightly consider changing it.  I think it works well.  There is some
>>>>> >> learning involved and a shortage of non-technical tooling but yet it
>>>>> >> works well.  I would consider upgrading to 5.0 (or 5.1) as that
>>>>> might
>>>>> >> widen the scope of tooling available and would be relatively
>>>>> painless.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> But I agree that we need to focus on the concrete requirements
>>>>> rather
>>>>> >> than products.  And most of all, the content.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On 7 April 2016 at 14:40, Jason Pickering <
>>>>> jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >> > Perhaps, but see my earlier mail regarding framework wars.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > This is the same discussion we are having about testing, use this
>>>>> >> > framework
>>>>> >> > or that framework. However, there are still too few tests, as no
>>>>> one can
>>>>> >> > agree.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > We have something which works. We have content which needs to be
>>>>> >> > improved
>>>>> >> > and updated. If there is a compelling reason to move away from
>>>>> something
>>>>> >> > which, albeit somewhat dated ...works, maybe it would be good to
>>>>> outline
>>>>> >> > the
>>>>> >> > reasons for this change.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:21 PM, Knut Staring <knutst@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> I see that Flare supports DITA, would that be a good alternative
>>>>> to
>>>>> >> >> DocBook?
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> http://dita.xml.org/
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 3:16 PM, Bob Jolliffe <
>>>>> bobjolliffe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> On a spectrum between low-level standardized technical docbook
>>>>> through
>>>>> >> >>> to "user friendly" (use Word), vendor-locked proprietary and
>>>>> patent
>>>>> >> >>> encumbered technology, this one seems to fall on the far right
>>>>> :-)
>>>>> >> >>> Not quite what I had in mind.
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> I can see the attraction but I would be very wary to go in this
>>>>> >> >>> direction.
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> On 7 April 2016 at 13:52, Rachael Brooke <rachael@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> > Hi everyone,
>>>>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> > Cecilia and I have been thinking about trying out a new tool
>>>>> that
>>>>> >> >>> > could
>>>>> >> >>> > handle big documentation projects, translation files and other
>>>>> >> >>> > resources. So
>>>>> >> >>> > it's good timing that this issue is being raised by you.
>>>>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> > We were considering looking into a solution which you may
>>>>> know,
>>>>> >> >>> > called
>>>>> >> >>> > MadCap Flare: http://www.madcapsoftware.com/products/flare/.
>>>>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> > If you have any other suggestions, we'd be happy to hear your
>>>>> >> >>> > thoughts.
>>>>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> > Thanks for bringing this up - we're investigating!
>>>>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> > Rachael
>>>>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> > On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:42 PM, Knut Staring <
>>>>> knutst@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> > wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >> Would be good to hear from our new documentation experts
>>>>> (Rachael
>>>>> >> >>> >> and
>>>>> >> >>> >> Cecilia) on this issue (what kinds of tools they would be
>>>>> >> >>> >> comfortable
>>>>> >> >>> >> with
>>>>> >> >>> >> etc).
>>>>> >> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >> Knut
>>>>> >> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:30 PM, Bob Jolliffe
>>>>> >> >>> >> <bobjolliffe@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> Hi Jason, Lars
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> I am not sure the link about oxygen nested comments is
>>>>> really
>>>>> >> >>> >>> addressing the "thing".
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> I agree with Lars that having the "<!-- Created by Serna
>>>>> Free -->"
>>>>> >> >>> >>> text inserted into all our documents is ugly, wrong and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> misleading.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> If you are using Serna Free I think it might be a simple
>>>>> courtesy
>>>>> >> >>> >>> to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> just strip those comments before committing.  Of course its
>>>>> >> >>> >>> possible
>>>>> >> >>> >>> to forget and maybe some sort of removal hook could be
>>>>> configured
>>>>> >> >>> >>> automatically (sed, xsltproc ..) but its maybe not so hard
>>>>> to just
>>>>> >> >>> >>> delete the line.
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> I am not sure of what the problem is with oxygen
>>>>> encountering
>>>>> >> >>> >>> these
>>>>> >> >>> >>> comments are though.  Maybe I also don't get the "thing"
>>>>> :-)  I
>>>>> >> >>> >>> open
>>>>> >> >>> >>> the docbook files with oxygen and don't encounter a problem
>>>>> >> >>> >>> related
>>>>> >> >>> >>> to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> the comment.  The docbook4 "type" seems to be immediately
>>>>> >> >>> >>> recognized
>>>>> >> >>> >>> and I get a Docbook4 menu appear when I switch to author
>>>>> mode
>>>>> >> >>> >>> whether
>>>>> >> >>> >>> the comment is there or not.  Is it an oxygen version issue
>>>>> (I
>>>>> >> >>> >>> currently use 17.1) or is there some other issue I am
>>>>> missing?
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> Though I think there are deeper issues at play.  First is
>>>>> that
>>>>> >> >>> >>> Serna
>>>>> >> >>> >>> Free seems no longer to be maintained (as a free version).
>>>>> One
>>>>> >> >>> >>> consequence of this being that using it keeps us frozen in
>>>>> time at
>>>>> >> >>> >>> docbook 4.4.  The last release of the docbook 4.x series
>>>>> was 4.5
>>>>> >> >>> >>> back
>>>>> >> >>> >>> in 2006.  The 5.0 (and now 5.1) series has been out for
>>>>> quite a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> long
>>>>> >> >>> >>> time now (2009?).  AFAIK the only reason for sticking with
>>>>> 4.x has
>>>>> >> >>> >>> been the availability of Serna Free.
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> (Which is not a small thing.  The sad truth is that
>>>>> another good
>>>>> >> >>> >>> free
>>>>> >> >>> >>> candidate for docbook editing by non-technical authors
>>>>> hasn't ever
>>>>> >> >>> >>> emerged.  Of course if you are more than a bit geeky then
>>>>> emacs
>>>>> >> >>> >>> does
>>>>> >> >>> >>> a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> good job.  But even I don't use emacs anymore for editing
>>>>> docbook
>>>>> >> >>> >>> documents.  I use oxygen, which is not free.)
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> Two thoughts come to mind:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> (i) it probably really makes sense to rejoin the (docbook)
>>>>> world
>>>>> >> >>> >>> and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> move from 4.4 to 5.0.  Particularly if the now defunct
>>>>> Serna Free
>>>>> >> >>> >>> is
>>>>> >> >>> >>> the only factor holding us back.  I understand that there
>>>>> are
>>>>> >> >>> >>> transforms available to make this a painless journey.  The
>>>>> best
>>>>> >> >>> >>> available in terms of free editing tools with a strong
>>>>> docbook
>>>>> >> >>> >>> focus
>>>>> >> >>> >>> seems to be the eclipse DEP4E plugin.  Otherwise there are
>>>>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> non-free tools as well as host of xml schema aware editors.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> Admittedly none of these really qualify as eminently
>>>>> suitable for
>>>>> >> >>> >>> non-technical authors so the problem isn't really completely
>>>>> >> >>> >>> solved,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> but maybe improved slightly.
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> (ii) more radically, it might be time to consider moving
>>>>> from
>>>>> >> >>> >>> docbook
>>>>> >> >>> >>> altogether.  There are a host of "cool" alternatives
>>>>> (markdown and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> friends) none of which I am fond of, but they have
>>>>> enthusiastic
>>>>> >> >>> >>> supporters.  To me they all seem like endless reinventions
>>>>> of
>>>>> >> >>> >>> roff/nroff/groff and certainly lack the maturity of
>>>>> docbook.   But
>>>>> >> >>> >>> maybe the world has moved to a stage that its possible to
>>>>> consider
>>>>> >> >>> >>> editing html5/css3 documents directly?  Certainly there is
>>>>> >> >>> >>> considerable user friendly editing tools available.  And
>>>>> >> >>> >>> conversion
>>>>> >> >>> >>> to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> pdf seems not to be a problem.  Though whether this would
>>>>> cause
>>>>> >> >>> >>> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> clean structure of documents to descend into anarchy I don't
>>>>> >> >>> >>> really
>>>>> >> >>> >>> know.
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> My 2 cents.  I would certainly advocate (i) above (though
>>>>> admit
>>>>> >> >>> >>> its a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> strong response to just getting rid of Serna Free
>>>>> comments).  (ii)
>>>>> >> >>> >>> frightens me quite a bit. Certainly would be a lot of work.
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> In the end comes down to (i) who will do most of the
>>>>> documentation
>>>>> >> >>> >>> and
>>>>> >> >>> >>> what do they like or tolerate, (ii) what effort is
>>>>> justified to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> fiddle
>>>>> >> >>> >>> with what is really quite a nice looking set of existing
>>>>> >> >>> >>> documentation.
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> For the moment lets at least agree to keep those horrible
>>>>> comments
>>>>> >> >>> >>> out.
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> Bob
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> On 6 April 2016 at 11:31, Jason Pickering
>>>>> >> >>> >>> <jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > For instance, perhaps this
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > http://www.oxygenxml.com/forum/topic3658.html
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > which seems to describe a means of getting around
>>>>> comments.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 7:01 PM, Jason Pickering
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > <jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> Hi Lars,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> I think there must be a way around this, and I would not
>>>>> be in
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> favor
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> at
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> all of ditching Serna. Its a good tool and not everyone
>>>>> has
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> access
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> to
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> relatively expensive commercial tool like Oxygen.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> Serna Free inserts this automatically unfortunately when
>>>>> it
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> saves
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> the
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> document, but lets look for a look around to deal with
>>>>> this in
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> Oxygen.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> Regards,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> Jason
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 6:44 PM, Lars Helge Øverland
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> <lars@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Hi,
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> re the documentation.The Serna editor horribly inserts a
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> <!-- Created by Serna Free -->
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> comment in all files it creates before the DTD. This
>>>>> throws
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> off
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Oxygen
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> from detecting it to be a Docbook format. Lets not use
>>>>> Serna
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> anymore
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> or at
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> least make sure we don't get comments in the beginning
>>>>> of
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> docbook
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> xml
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> files.
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Lars
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> --
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Lars Helge Øverland
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Lead developer, DHIS 2
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> University of Oslo
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Skype: larshelgeoverland
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> http://www.dhis2.org
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Post to     : dhis2-documenters@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> --
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> Jason P. Pickering
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >> tel:+46764147049
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > --
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > Jason P. Pickering
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > tel:+46764147049
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > Post to     : dhis2-documenters@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters
>>>>> >> >>> >>> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>> >> >>> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> >>> >>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters
>>>>> >> >>> >>> Post to     : dhis2-documenters@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> >> >>> >>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters
>>>>> >> >>> >>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>> >> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >>
>>>>> >> >>> >> --
>>>>> >> >>> >> Knut Staring
>>>>> >> >>> >> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo
>>>>> >> >>> >> Norway: +4791880522
>>>>> >> >>> >> Skype: knutstar
>>>>> >> >>> >> http://dhis2.org
>>>>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> --
>>>>> >> >> Knut Staring
>>>>> >> >> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo
>>>>> >> >> Norway: +4791880522
>>>>> >> >> Skype: knutstar
>>>>> >> >> http://dhis2.org
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > --
>>>>> >> > Jason P. Pickering
>>>>> >> > email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> >> > tel:+46764147049
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > Jason P. Pickering
>>>>> > email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> > tel:+46764147049
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jason P. Pickering
>>>> email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> tel:+46764147049
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Knut Staring
>>> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo
>>> Norway: +4791880522
>>> Skype: knutstar
>>> http://dhis2.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Knut Staring
>> Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo
>> Norway: +4791880522
>> Skype: knutstar
>> http://dhis2.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jason P. Pickering
> email: jason.p.pickering@xxxxxxxxx
> tel:+46764147049
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters
> Post to     : dhis2-documenters@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-documenters
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>
>