kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Alex G <mr.nuke.me@xxxxxxxxx>]

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> 
> Alex,
> 
> Basically there is gnu c++ and there is Microsoft c++.
> 
> OSX / Apple uses gnu c++.  And why would they not?  It is free and
> excellent.
> 
> It will be difficult for any other C++ compiler to succeed commercially
> long term.  There will be short lived exceptions WRT to multi-core
> concurrency, and microcomputers, and possible non-standard bells and
> whistles.  But how does one compete with *free* long term on the larger
> cpu chips?  It is not a certainty that Microsoft still has a C++
> compiler 10 years from now.
> 
> In summary, if Kicad compiles with gnu c++, we are on pretty good
> footing.  At some point gnu c++ begins to define the c++ standard.  You
> have a market standard and a language committee standard.  The language
> standard becomes academic at some point.
> 
> 
> There are bigger fish to fry than worrying about Kicad's conformance to
> an academic standard.
> 
I wouldn't know how to counterargument this in a productive way. :)
>> I've added
>> - -pedantic -std=c++98
>> to CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS and recompiled to see if everything was in order. The
>> amount of warnings I got is worrying.
> 
> 
> Alex, sleep well.  Worrying about this is not worth it, gnu c++ is not
> going anywhere.
> 
> 
> What I meant by 'Microsoft crap':
> 
> BTW no one said any compiler is crap.  What I meant to say, was that
> anytime a Microsoft decision makes me do anything, it is crap, an
> invasion of my life space.  I resist that invasion each time it happens,
> and did so in this instance by calling it crap. 
> 
I wasn't offended by the wording "M$ crap" , and even had you said that
their compiler is crap, I would not disagree, for my experience with it
would only confirm this.
> 
> It is my opinion that most of these issues should be dealt with by those
> people that would embrace the Microsoft solutions, since those solutions
> have specific costs of usage.   It is technically fairest if those costs
> are brought to Microsoft's attention, and not to the attention of those
> that have no interest in what Microsoft is doing.
> 
True.
> 
> Microsoft once cost me a great deal of money 22 years ago.  So I harbor
> a deep seated resentment towards them, and it causes me to simply resist
> being manipulated by them, either directly or indirectly.
> 
I have spent a total of $260 on M$ products in my lifetime, and I intend
to keep it that way. I understand your resentment.

> If you buy a vehicle that won't fit into your garage, please don't park
> it in front of my house, especially if it comes from Microsoft. 
> 
Excellent analogy. :)

> I say this even to family members who use Microsoft products.  When they
> ask for help on Microsoft stuff, I say "well certainly you chose to use
> a Microsoft product because you took into consideration the support you
> can get from them.  So just call somebody at Microsoft and see if they
> can help you".  
>
I will take that as an advice on how to respond when my friends ask me
for help with their M$ Crap. :)

> Naturally the reaction is sometimes visceral, but my remark is
> *designed* to question the very reason why folks use Microsoft products,
> and to force people to think.  If you cannot report a bug and have it
> fixed, or get support somewhere, is it a good decision to use that product?
> 
I understand your point and agree with it; however, this is a
double-sided blade. Unless you are a full-blown programmer, familiar
with the source of the software, experienced enough to trace and fix the
issue, or unless you get lucky on a forum or mailing list, you have _no_
way of fixing the problem. And if it's the user's GNU/Linux system
itself that has the problem, you can easily imagine how this turns out
to be overwhelming. I bring it up because I am in a very similar situation.

> With gcc, I feel I can look at the source, or go onto a mailing list and
> ask for help.  I have even created a patch or two over the years for gnu
> g++.
> 
> So Microsoft crap is a reference to a trickle down effect, like sitting
> under a bird up on a branch.  If you allow them to bring an issue to my
> attention, I will resist every time.  They cannot manipulate me any
> more.  And if I have to leave this project at some point to ensure that,
> I would chose to do so.
> 
Since no one will answer what the actual, specific issue is, I have
decided to waste 50GB of perfectly good free space. I'm doing this out
of sheer curiosity, and in no way in an attempt to prove someone right
or wrong. About the issue under discussion, I rest my case.

Alex
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