On 10/1/2015 5:03 PM, Cirilo Bernardo wrote:
I think in general VRML models suffer from a somewhat random (0,0,0)
reference
and even the orientation is typically 1 of 4 common orientations. This
is due in
part from the habits of whoever created the model and in part from the
modeling
software used. We will see more such problems when we have the capability to
use more types of models. The only scheme I can think of so far which may
help with this issue is to have an optional file alongside each 3D model
file to
provide information needed to put the model into a nominal position. For
models
not at (0,0,0) such a scheme would also save people from typing the same
information into the VRML scale/rotation/translation box all the time.
The down
sides of course are these extra files and the fact that if 2 files have
the same
name but different (0,0,0) someone will have to remember to edit the
positioning
file. The file is not intended to replace the scale/rotation/translation
within KiCad
but to transparently add to it. The model manager can make this happen
without
additional user interaction. Unfortunately this scheme can only help to
create the
nominal position - whatever a user decides that must be. It doesn't help
at all
if footprints change their (0,0) reference between projects, which is
the case for
the newer THT footprints in the KiCad libraries.
Changes so far which can cause problems:
schematic symbols:
+ many changed size and the location of connection points
+ Diodes were made consistent so K is always Pin 1 (which I think should
have
been the case even for THT since K is the marked pin)
+ Orientations may have changed
footprints:
+ (0,0) reference for THT components has changed; I'm not familiar at
all with
the orientation of SMT footprints so I can't say if they've changed,
but some
rules were put in place to ensure a consistent orientation. I suspect
the (0,0)
position remains the 'center of body' since that's what's required by
placing
machines, but I haven't been following the changes.
Has anyone checked if the position files are correct for THT footprints
with the pin 1 reference points at 0,0? If this breaks user's position
files used for pick & place, this is *really* bad and I would consider
this a potential stable release blocker. Someone needs to confirm this
so we can make a decision.
+ Orientation has changed for many THT components
VRML models:
+ many have changed orientation
+ many have changed (0,0,0)
I would prefer that the orientation and scaling match footprint so the
user doesn't have to change anything by default. In other words, the
scaling is always 1 and the offsets and rotation angles are always 0.
We should definitely provide big red warning signs for users telling them of
the potential problems and reminding them that they should archive all
existing projects before switching if they make use of the kicad libraries.
- Cirilo
On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 6:24 AM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
The only down side is that as improvements are made to the 3D models,
they would not be visible. I hope at some point in the future our 3D
models could be improved (some of material properties are very wrong)
now that FreeCAD exports vrml files that the 3D viewer can use. I would
think the demos should track the latest and greatest to show case
KiCad's capabilities.
The "everything" project archive sounds interesting but it should be
discussed outside this bug report.
On 10/1/2015 4:15 PM, Chris Pavlina wrote:
> It's a right shame we don't have any standalone project archive format
> that holds *everything*. That would be *very* useful for this sort of
> thing, as well as just generally making sure projects can always be opened.
>
> I wonder if there is any developer interest in that besides me. It's
> definitely on my list of things I'd like to work on post-release, but I
> don't have much time lately...
>
> On Oct 1, 2015 3:52 PM, "nnn" <nnn4000@xxxxx <mailto:nnn4000@xxxxx> <mailto:nnn4000@xxxxx
<mailto:nnn4000@xxxxx>>> wrote:
>
> Why not to add 3d files (from some old revision of library) to
> projects folder and use paths relative to KIPRJMOD? If demos will
> refer to some special revision of library with 3d models they will
> break each time the models are moved or renamed.
>
>
> W dniu 01.10.2015 o 16:20, Wayne Stambaugh pisze:
>
> I just committed a fix for broken 3D model link in the interf_u demo
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1500956. While I was at it, I
> looked at the rest of the demos that have board files and they are
> broken (one partially) as well. Here is an opportunity for
> someone to
> help out the project and no programming experience is require.
> All you
> need to know is how to associate 3D models with footprints in
> Pcbnew and
> how to use bzr to create branch and a patch (well documented many
> places). If someone has time to do this before the stable
> release, it
> really would be nice if our demos showed off the 3D models.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wayne
>
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