kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[xarx@xxxxxx]

Andy,

I've put my comments in to the text below.

> > I'm not an EE professional, I'm an EE hobbyist. And my ideal tool would
allow
> > me to draw a schema and allow me to copy it to a document or to publish it
to
> > internet. And then by extending it a little bit I could use the same
schema
> > for simulations (which may then force me to modify the schema and publish
it
> > again). And when I'm satisfied, then I would amend the schema with new
> > information (without the necessity to draw and maintain another copy of
it)
> > and use it for Pcb creation. I don't know whether there are any quirks
when
> > performing this workflow in large scale, but in an amateur scale I see no
> > problems with that. KiCad allows one to omit selected components from
netlist
> > exports, or from Pcb creation, or from both.

> Well, you say use the same schema for simulations (which may then force me
to
> modify the schema  which sounds like youre basically creating two
different
> schematics. And thats fine. What I argue against is attempting to use the
> _same_ schematic for both SPICE (or other) simulation and PCB layout.

> What I think happens with most designs is that there is only a small part
which
> needs to be simulated. Consider a mostly-digital design with DAC on it, and
you
> want to simulate the DAC output filter. Its easiest to pull out the filter
and
> simulate it separately, and when youre happy, copy that design (with proper
> component values) back to the main design. Yes, there is some amount of
> self-discipline involved.

Nope. When I need to understand a part of a circuit, I model it separately.
But then I try to simulate the circuit as a whole. But my circuits haven't
been big, I'm using KiCad for a couple of months maybe.

> For documentation, I use OS X, so the Print command enables PDF output for
free.
> On Windows you can install something like CutePDF which creates a virtual
> printer that outputs to PDF files.

I'm interested in GIFs or PNGs, not in PDFs. I plot the schema into clipboard,
then I crop it and paste it into my personal notes app. Unfortunately, KiCad
does not have the ability to copy a part of a schema into clipboard directly.
I use KiCad on Windows 7.

> > Concerning LTSpiceIV, I found it an excelent simulator with a terrible
editor.
> > That's why I wouldn't mind editing netlists for LTSpice somewhere else -
in
> > KiCad :-) But for now I'm happily using KiCad + NgSpice.

> No doubt  the schematic capture for LTSpice is rather dreadful, with
> non-obvious commands for everything. (It makes EAGLE look user-friendly and
> standard.) I printed out the cheat sheet with the key commands because I can
> never remember them. But LTSpice beats other tools is that you can click on
a
> net and it plots the voltage waveform for that net. Click on a component,
and it
> plots the current through that component. I honestly dont know if the
> KiCad/NgSpice combination does that.

eSim (which is basically a wrapper over KiCad and NgSpice) allows something
similar. But instead of placing a probe directly in the schema, you check the
nets you want to plot in a list.

> > So, perhaps your way and purpose of using the tools is different from
mine?

> Oh, yes, certainly years of working in a production environment ingrains
some
> habits that are impossible to shake. Thankfully, Kicad easily accommodates
those
> habits, and I think thats because the guys who started the project and
continue
> to maintain it need to do PCB design in a production environment. Much of
what
> is needed for production is overkill for the hobbyist, but I honestly think
that
> if Kicad didnt appeal to the professionals it would be yet another
half-baked
> open-source CAD program and not the useful tool it has become. 

Without doubt! But the problem of professional tools is usually their steep
learning curve. You have to understand the tool almost completely in order to
be able  to use it even as a beginner. This is unfortunate.

   Martin.

> -a
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