kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>]

On 6/6/2017 12:51 PM, Kristoffer Ödmark wrote:
> The main reason for the discussion ( From what i gather ) is that
> external tools then have a field they know will be there and can all
> gather around, since they know what it is called.
> 
> I dont really think it needs to be hardcoded as such, it could just be a
> default preference to the "JP custom field" table, but then at least
> there would be some solid ground to parse or create scripts around, IE
> anyone can expect that the field "Manufacturer Part Number" ( for
> example!) is going to be there by default. If it has been renamed or
> removed, so be it. But it can reasonably be expected to be there.

I would be opposed to hard coding it.  It is not required internally by
KiCad.  I'm not sure what you mean by "JP custom field".  Please keep in
mind that if a custom field (the value not the name) is empty, it is not
saved in the schematic file so I'm not sure how we would address that if
that is what you are asking.

> 
> The only thing people agreed upon in this long discussion was that there
> should be some field that one can expect to hold a Manufacturer part
> number. The only way I see this happening (or not) at this point is that
> someone takes an executive decision here, and I believe that Wayne
> should be the one saying yay or nay, and decide upon a name. Adding it
> is probably not very hard. I could take that upon myself, in whatever
> form it takes.

I am less concerned about the name than I am about the implementation
and it's impact on the code.  As of right now, custom fields are stored
in the eeschema config file in the "FieldNames" entry.  We could create
a single default custom field for the manufacturer part number in the
eeschema config code but that's not a very elegant solution.  Maybe we
should add a "FieldNames" entry to the default project file (.pro) that
gets copied to the project folder when a new project is created.  That
can be read and merged with the user's custom fields defined in the
eeschema config file.  This seems like a better solution.  This way if a
user just doesn't like the default, they can just modify their default
project file accordingly.  There may be other potential solutions but
this is the best I can think of at the moment.

> 
> I also dont think that anyone should have problems creating a script or
> tool that parses a field with a spaces in it, if they do have problems
> with that, I do not expect that script to be any good anyway :)
> 
> Regarding the UPN, I think it was just a compromise about the people
> wanting a house part number and the ones who wanted a manufacturer part
> number.
> 
> - Kristoffer
> 
> On 2017-06-06 17:48, Fabrizio Tappero wrote:
>> talking about complains... back on the wild KiCad forum (I did not
>> know existed), people are kind of "destroying"  Kaspar's initiative to
>> make KiCad a better tool.
>>
>> Kaspar, I personally support your effort but I do not know how since I
>> do not have any special need in the BOM department. I am happy with
>> JP's custom table.
>>
>> One the other hand... I would find schematic variants a way more
>> interesting matter. But that is an other episode of the KiCad series.
>>
>> cheers
>> Fabrizio
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>>     Are the KiCad library developers planning on providing atomic symbol
>>     libraries?  I'm guessing that is the end goal for reserving a name
>> for
>>     an optional field.  I cannot think of any other reason to do this.
>>
>>     On 6/6/2017 9:22 AM, Kristoffer Ödmark wrote:
>>     > Hi!
>>     >
>>     > I will bump this issue again, but to avoid bikesheeding I will
>> ask for a
>>     > decision from leader Wayne. Should there be a default field in
>> kicad for
>>     > part number and if, what should it be named?
>>
>>     It doesn't matter what I decide.  Since these are optional fields,
>> users
>>     can choose to ignore, change, or delete them.  In my own projects
>> I use
>>     the obvious field name "Manufacturer Part Number".
>>
>>     >
>>     > From what i gather, a field for a part number is the only thing
>> everyone
>>     > agrees on, after that everyone has some different standard and
>> wishes
>>     > for default fields ( Tolerances, fitting, vendors, manufacturer,
>>     > housepart etc etc ).
>>     >
>>     > The name for a part number seem field to most favoured to be MPN or
>>     > ManufacturerPart (differs between github and the user forum),
>> although
>>     > UPN for universal part number was suggested and not flamed.
>>
>>     "MPN" it's not very descriptive (human readable). 
>> "ManufacturerPart" is
>>     more descriptive but I'm not thrilled about the camel case name
>> although
>>     I could stomach it.  Field names are not programming language syntax.
>>     They can have spaces in them for readability.  I'm guessing that
>> someone
>>     is using an application where spaces in the field name causes
>> issues but
>>     I'm not sure that should be a concern for KiCad.  I don't much
>> care for
>>     "UPN".  Are manufacturer's even talking about a universal part
>> numbering
>>     system?  I would be very surprised given that manufacturers do their
>>     best to differentiate there products even if they are functionally
>>     equivalent.
>>
>>     I don't have a strong opinion on this but if I had to pick one of the
>>     choices you have given me, I would pick "ManufacturerPart".  Let the
>>     complaining commence. ;)
>>
>>     I hope this helps!
>>
>>     Cheers,
>>
>>     Wayne
>>
>>      >
>>      > Pros:
>>      > Easier with a standard for external tools.
>>      > Every component has one, not every component has values, many
>>     have both.
>>      > Is optional to use, so will not break anything for anyone not
>>     wanting to
>>      > use it
>>      >
>>      > Cons:
>>      > Some are worried the fields will be impossible to keep updated
>> in the
>>      > standard libs
>>      > Some people are using House numbers instead
>>      > Some think this data should not be in the schematic but handled
>>     by other
>>      > tools
>>      >
>>      > Links to discussions I you want to read it:
>>      >
>>    
>> https://forum.kicad.info/t/default-manufacturers-part-number-field-in-kicad-libraries/4387/28
>>
>>    
>> <https://forum.kicad.info/t/default-manufacturers-part-number-field-in-kicad-libraries/4387/28>
>>
>>      >
>>      > https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-library/issues/808
>>     <https://github.com/KiCad/kicad-library/issues/808>
>>      >
>>    
>> https://forum.kicad.info/t/standard-symbol-field-names-initiative/4870/3
>>    
>> <https://forum.kicad.info/t/standard-symbol-field-names-initiative/4870/3>
>>
>>      >
>>      >
>>      >
>>      > On 2017-01-12 20:12, Kaspar Emanuel wrote:
>>      >> I have put up a proposal for a "community standard" on the forum:
>>      >>
>>    
>> https://forum.kicad.info/t/standard-symbol-field-names-initiative/4870/1
>>    
>> <https://forum.kicad.info/t/standard-symbol-field-names-initiative/4870/1>
>>
>>      >>
>>      >> On 12 January 2017 at 18:33, Kaspar Emanuel
>>     <kaspar.emanuel@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kaspar.emanuel@xxxxxxxxx>
>>      >> <mailto:kaspar.emanuel@xxxxxxxxx
>>     <mailto:kaspar.emanuel@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >>     On 12 January 2017 at 16:44, Kaspar Emanuel
>>      >>     <kaspar.emanuel@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kaspar.emanuel@xxxxxxxxx>
>>     <mailto:kaspar.emanuel@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kaspar.emanuel@xxxxxxxxx>>>
>>     wrote:
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >>         Is there actually any issue, internally to KiCAD, with
>>     creating
>>      >>         multiple fields with the same name? It seems to let me
>>     create
>>      >>         two fields called MPN and save and re-open without a
>>     problem.
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >>     Actually, just tested again and it doesn't like fields with
>>     the same
>>      >>     name, it simply overwrites them once you press ok, not sure
>>     what I
>>      >>     was doing before. That's a shame.
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >>
>>      >>
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