kicad-developers team mailing list archive

["Sergey A. Borshch" <sb-sf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 07.02.2018 17:14, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
> Hey Orson,
>
> Thanks for the response.  I agree with your concern about hidden pins
> but they are hidden in the schematic editor so I'm not sure it makes
> sense to show them.  It may be confusing to users when they see the
> hidden pins in the symbol chooser and then they mysteriously disappear
> when they place them in the schematic editor. 
Proposal: do not show hidden pins in component chooser, but write "This symbol 
has invisible pins" in eye-pain red somewhere below symbol image. Optionally 
show "Details" button, which opens dialog or expands some area with all hidden 
pins info: pin numbers, net names, numbers an names of visible pins at same 
locations etc.

> Developers know what the
> invisible pins denote but is this clear to most users?  I comfortable
> either way, I'm just trying to get a handle on this from a typical
> user's point of view.  Anyone else have a strong opinion on this?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Wayne
>
> On 2/7/2018 8:29 AM, Maciej Sumiński wrote:
> > Hi Wayne,
> >
> > No, I have not reviewed the patch. I had some doubts about potential
> > problems caused by invisible pins creating hidden connections. If user
> > is neither aware of their presence when selecting a symbol, nor will
> > notice them after they are placed on a schematic sheet then he may end
> > up accidentally connecting them to some wires. IIRC we do not have an
> > ERC test to check against such case, so I was not sure if it is a safe
> > change.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Orson
> >
> > On 02/07/2018 02:21 PM, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
> > > Orson,
> > >
> > > Did you ever respond to Jon about this?  I guess the question is whether
> > > or not to show invisible pins in the component chooser.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Wayne
> > >
> > > On 1/15/2018 9:31 PM, Jon Evans wrote:
> > > > Hi Orson, patch is attached again, hopefully it goes through this time.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Jon
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 4:24 AM, Rene Pöschl <poeschlr@xxxxxxxxx
> > > > <mailto:poeschlr@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >      On 15/01/18 10:00, Maciej Sumiński wrote:
> > > >
> > > >          Perhaps we should have an ERC rule
> > > >          that warns about invisible pins being connected to a wire, any
> > > >          thoughts?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >      Invisible pins are used for three distinct applications.
> > > >
> > > >      The first one is to remove clutter by hiding pins that should not be
> > > >      connected. ERC will complain if you connect such pins if they have the
> > > >      electrical type "Not connected".
> > > >
> > > >      The second application is to create "power labels". A invisible power
> > > >      input pin is handled as a global label. These pins are meant to be
> > > >      connected.
> > > >
> > > >      The third application is again to remove clutter by stacking pins. Here
> > > >      you have one visible pin and several other invisible pins at the same
> > > >      location. (Normally all these pins have the same name and electrical
> > > >      type. With the exception of power input pins, power output pins and
> > > >      output pins.)
> > > >      Such pins are again meant to be connected.
> > > >
> > > >      This means a ERC rule that complains about connecting hidden pins will
> > > >      create too many false positives. Having a lot of false positives means
> > > >      users will start to ignore ERC output.
> > > >
> > > >      It might be a good idea to have a symbol checker that complains if
> > > >      invisible pins are used differently than i described above.
> > > >      In other words: complain for invisible pins if they are not part of a
> > > >      stack or of types NC or power input.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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--
Regards,
  Sergey A. Borshch            mailto: sb-sf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    SB ELDI ltd. Riga, Latvia