openerp-community team mailing list archive

[Joël Grand-Guillaume <joel.grandguillaume@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Fabien I knew you'll rant on me here ;)

Don't take me wrong, I first congratulate you all on your work here and I'm
convinced it's the right way to go. I just wanna make the difference
between your vision and the reality today.

Today:

 * OpenERP isn't able to sync easily with another OpenERP instance to have
2 server, one for e-commerce, one for ERP. It's more easy to do though than
sync 2 different systems you're right, but nothing concrete exists today.

 * OpenERP scale well (saas is the proof), but still we face performance
issue quite often in our important project. By putting OpenERP as a front
and back end on a same server can have dramatical issue regarding the
company's operations, I will not take that risk for my important (in terms
of orders/users) customers at this stage.

 * OpenERP has less code. That is good, easier to maintain, that's great.
Now, lot's of feature are today missing compare to other e-commerce
platform: bundle product (like Dell computer configuration),
multi-dimensional variant (and I'm speaking here of their configuration and
day-to-day use, try to change a variant of T-shirt with color, size and
logo), cross-selling, up-selling, etc.. But we need a start right ? And in
that you did something huge, as you said this is v1.0, it's amazing, but it
hasn't yet all features that other have today.

 * OpenERP E-Commerce will I'm sure fit big company needs in the future,
but today it doesn't. It doesn't means your new module isn't great and
bring new rules and standards in the place and for that I love it !

In any case, this new set of modules/features is more than welcome, so
thank you.


Regards,


Joël


On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Fabien Pinckaers <fp@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>
>>  * When you're facing hundreds of orders a days and thousands visitors,
>> you'll not succeed to have it all in one instance. Imagine, who will block
>> his operation because they have too much click on their front-end ? Fors
>> that reason (and security if you matter about), you'll prefer 2 servers.
>>
>
>
> Don't agree AT ALL.
>
>   - OpenERP is built to scale (*)
>   - A full featured OpenERP will be much faster than Magento or Prestashop
>
> You point is only valid if magento or prestashop are faster and allow to
> scale more than OpenERP. But it's actually the opposite!
>
> Why will OpenERP be always faster than MagentoCommerce and Prestashop.
> Because it's much simpler and, thus, much easier to optimize. Just check
> the number of lines of code:
>   - OpenERP (with ALL modules: CRM, Accounting, WMS, eCommerce, Events,
> ...): 150k lines of code, only 15k for CMS+eCommerce+events
>   - Magento (WITHOUT any module, version 1.8): 918k lines of code
>   - Prestashop (WITHOUT any module): 257k lines of code
>
> So, at equivalent-features, OpenERP has around 10x less lines of code.
> One is easier to optimize and scale and the others are not :)
> It's not because we do more that we are more complex or slower.
>
>
> (*) all massive read operations are O(1), we fine tuned it for huge
> transactions. Only one module was a bottleneck to scale huge sales, it's
> "stock", and its refactoring for v8 makes it become super fast and its
> speed is not anymore dependent on the number of historic transactions.
>
> Our SaaS servers already manages millions of documents per server, without
> any issues. Try to do that with Magento.
>
>
>>  * base_synchro is clearely not an option to separate 2 OpenERP servers.
>> It's has simply been abandoned by OpenERP for good reasons IMO (bad design,
>> to many troubles in real uses cases, no atomic transaction to inappropriate
>> to sync ERP datas).
>>
>
> base_synchro is not perfect. We still use it on some projects. We removed
> it from v7 because we think it's nor for end-users as it's too complex but
> it helped us a lot. Camptocamp's connector may be an option too.
>
> My point is not to use this or that, but: it's much easier to sync OpenERP
> with OpenERP rather than OpenERP with something else.
>
>
>>
>> * This included ecommerce is a great step forward and people will love
>> it. But other e-commerce platform (like Magento, Prestashop and lot's of
>> others) have years of experience and devs behind them. They provide lot's
>> of advance products, sales and scaling features that you will not found in
>> OpenERP E-commerce yet.
>>
>
> That's actually their main issue! They have years of technical debt.
> They became bloated and have difficulties to evolve.
>
>
> * In case you're running a important e-commerce solution, I think you will
>> definitely keep 2 tools and use a connector in-between (like
>> https://code.launchpad.net/openerp-connector)
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> For others purposes, like HR & recruitment, events publication and more,
>> this new feature is clearly a big advantage. It will also serve small
>> companies for their first e-commerce experience and that's great ! This is
>> also a first step in the direction of having one tools to rules front and
>> back end together. But I cannot reasonably imagine it's viable for middle
>> to large companies currently.
>>
>
> If you think OpenERP eCommerce is not for big companies, you are missing
> the point completly. OpenERP is designed to handle big companies need, much
> more than current eCommerce software. We are only at v1 and I bet we can
> already serve big companies much better than Magento. I think that if we do
> a list of features, OpenERP has more green marks, even on v1!
>
>
> Side note: our videos emphasized on useability and simple interface. It
> does not mean that we don't handle complex/advanced needs. It's OpenERP
> afterall :)
>
> Another way to view this: the eCommerce module is only 2600 lines of code.
> Even if something is missing in v1, it's a piece of cake to add a new
> feature on such a clean structure. (and you don't have to learn a new
> language/framework)
>
>
>
>
>
>  module and ported to v7.  There is an outstanding merge request in to
>>> server-env-tools on v7 branch which as yet has not been reviewed.  So
>>> if you require this functionality then please test it and get it
>>> merged.
>>>
>>> It adds a new module, base_synchro_auto for automating
>>> synchronisation, automatic population of fields with boolean style
>>> selection of fields to sync.  There is a third module which I am
>>> trying to work out how to make generic which is an initialisation and
>>> configuration module for existing databases which will match up all
>>> the existing matching records prior to syncing.
>>>
>>> It won't do translations AFAIK (although maybe syncing the
>>> ir_translations table does it, I don't know), but forms a good base
>>> upon which to extend.
>>>
>>> https://code.launchpad.net/~gdgellatly/server-env-tools/base-synchro-7.0/+merge/200127
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 3:24 AM, Mariano Ruiz <mrsarm@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> > Fabien says:
>>> >
>>> > 2/ deploy separatly the frontend and the backend (and use modules like
>>> > base_synchro to sync them)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > But, the base_synchro module is not supported any more from the 6.1
>>> version.
>>> > We use this to sync two OpenERP 6.1 instance, and we found a lot of
>>> bug in
>>> > this module. A special error related for this discussion: the module
>>> not
>>> > sync translatable fields! only export the original value, without
>>> > translations.
>>> >
>>> > We report this, but the response was: "base_synchro" doesn't exist
>>> anymore
>>> > on trunk and in stable release 7.0, So this issue doesn't affect to
>>> trunk.
>>> >
>>> > So, we fix the module, but only tested in 6.1 version, maybe for 7.0
>>> and
>>> > trunk version is not working, check the bug #1195801.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 2014/1/18 Fabien Pinckaers <fp@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> As an example, we just did a quick prototype to illustrate my
>>> point.
>>> >> >> Check this video, a new way of doing quotations:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5BDHVRYo-q5SDZFcEJmTXFyNTA/edit?usp=sharing
>>> >> >
>>> >> > This is awesome. I imagine instead of sending a customer a quotation
>>> >> > with 100 pages, you can have a interactive webpage, including
>>> graphics,
>>> >> > videos, 3d-modells and all the stuff.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> This is so cool. I bet it improves quotes success rate by at least
>>> 20%!
>>> >> >
>>> >> > If we have the first customer implementing this, i will ask him to
>>> do a
>>> >> > A/B-Testing to validate your numbers ;)
>>> >>
>>> >> We will use this for our own need within 4 weeks. So, I will be able
>>> to
>>> >> provide stats.
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> 2/ deploy separatly the frontend and the backend (and use modules
>>> like
>>> >> >> base_synchro to sync them)
>>> >> >
>>> >> > What is the branch on that, so that we can have a look in details?
>>> >>
>>> >> It s an official module since v6
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Greetings
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Markus
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > Dipl.-Comp.-Math. Markus Schneider
>>> >> > Softwareentwickler
>>> >> >
>>> >> > initOS GmbH & Co. KG
>>> >> > An der Eisenbahn 1
>>> >> > 21224 Rosengarten
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Mobil:   +49 (0)172 2303699
>>> >> > Phone:   +49 (0)4105 5615613
>>> >> > Fax:     +49 (0)4105 5615610
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Email:   markus.schneider@xxxxxxxxxx
>>> >> > Web:     http://www.initos.com
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Geschäftsführung:
>>> >> > Dipl. Wirt.-Inf. Frederik Kramer & Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Torsten Francke
>>> >> > Haftende Gesellschafterin: initOS Verwaltungs GmbH
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Rosengarten – Klecken
>>> >> > Amtsgericht Tostedt, HRA 201840
>>> >> > USt-IdNr: DE 275698169
>>> >> > Steuer-Nr: 15/205/21402
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
>>> >> Post to     : openerp-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
>>> >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Mariano Ruiz
>>> > Software Architect & Web Developer
>>> > http://www.mrdev.com.ar
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
>>> > Post to     : openerp-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
>>> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>> >
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Post to     : openerp-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-community
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> *camptocamp*
>> INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS
>> BY OPEN SOURCE EXPERTS
>>
>> *Joël Grand-Guillaume*
>> Division Manager
>> Business Solutions
>>
>> +41 21 619 10 28
>> www.camptocamp.com
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 


*camptocamp*
INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS
BY OPEN SOURCE EXPERTS

*Joël Grand-Guillaume*
Division Manager
Business Solutions

+41 21 619 10 28
www.camptocamp.com