openerp-community team mailing list archive

["Dale E. Moore" <daleemoore@xxxxxxxxx>]

Thanks Yury Tello; for sharing your experience!


On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Yury Tello <ytello@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> +1 to Carlos and Ana.
> I had the same trouble to selling the OPW and to renew the partnership. So
> far I am without partnership and the only change has been that I have USD $
> 3,000 more in my pocket. But need renew soon because i need sell some OPW
> for some customers who want migration service to V8.
>
> So I think that the OPW has high value for migration, but has little
> impact on other services offered . Maybe OpenERP SA may rethink this
> product to get more revenue.
>
> About PULL strategy , I think it's good for OpenERP SA , considering that
> currently sells services directly to end customers . Last December a client
> who was trading with me, received an email with a quote from OpenERP SA
> with a lower price, of course the client is upset with me because he
> thought I was cheating.
>
> So I think PULL strategy is good for OpenERP SA.
>
> Finally, I think this is a good first step to listening to customers from
> OpenERP SA (partners , end customers and community).
>
> Regards
>
> P. D. All issues raised here were discussed with OpenERP SA before the end
> of my partnership and unfortunately they did not listen.
>
>
> 2014-02-16 19:26 GMT-05:00 Ana Juaristi <ajuaristio@xxxxxxxxx>:
>
> Carlos.... +1 to everything you are explaining in a so clear way.
>> About:
>>
>> *The services you offer to partners are somewhat rigid in some cases. I
>> would love to sell an Enterprise contract with every OpenERP
>> implementation. But this is not possible. The OPW is not made for
>> end-users, us partners we have to take part in the process.*
>> Just an example:
>> As partner wanting to pivote or at less make compatible my actual
>> bussiness model with this new app aproach, asked to OpenERP sales people
>> about possibility of taking 10 users on Saas in advance for reselling but,
>> using them on several customers (lets say 5 different customers single user
>> and 1 single customer with 5 users for example)  that would be 6 different
>> DBs... They say in that case, I would not benefit any discount of final
>> price but if I sell 10 users to a single customer I benefit 50% of final
>> price. It has nosense I think. One 10 users customer is not going to take a
>> SAAS aproach or at less it would be very difficult to sell.
>> On the other side, I say... ok so I give you the single user customer and
>> you invoice yourself to him... Answer: could be, but in that case that
>> customer is not count as part of your partnership level, better if you
>> invoice to him. So, you are asking to me to take care of a customer that
>> I'm not taking any benefit or trying to sell more users that they need
>> (complex both cases... ) so yourself are cutting our wings to fly and yours
>> to grow up.
>>
>> That's only an example (I could give you 3-4 more) where you are NOT
>> considering your partners channel as your customers. If people wants to
>> make bussiness with you, you can not close the door. Whatever they are
>> offering you should at less consider it for opening new win-win ways. Even
>> if at the end you decide not to go that direction because is not strategic,
>> valuable for you, at less you should consider all proposals. You always say
>> that we must benefit of bussiness you are offering to partners but it's not
>> like that. Partners should give you benefit without having to force them to
>> sale or something, simply because you are offering so good services that
>> they are wanting to buy them to you. By now, services offered to partners
>> is only discounts on services offered to final customers. That aproach is
>> wrong, because final customers are much more close to partner than to you
>> (unless he is your own final customer). It's much more easy for partners
>> selling their own services to final customers thant trying to sell yours
>> only for discounts and small amounts of not visible valuable services (even
>> if they are valuable, don't misunderstand please).
>>
>> I have discused this point with Nhomar several times. He can not
>> understand that we and most of partners I know can not sell OPW to
>> customers. I'm trying from begining. I never succed. Why? Maybe because I
>> don't know selling it (could be so training needed) or because customer
>> consider your company far-far away... He only wants system working and for
>> him we are first point of solution. They understand nothing about launchpad
>> or reporting bugs or creating patches and for sure they don't mind if bug
>> is from core or localization or custom module. He needs global support and
>> it can not be offered (by the moment) directly from you. For them, it
>> doesn't matter where is or who is OpenERP, S.A they only want a phone
>> number (my number) to call and solve the problem (inmediatly)
>> So... IMHO it's needed reviewing the way OpenERP is offering his services
>> to partner thinking on partner. Not in final customers and discounts for
>> their services.
>>
>> Things that I'm ready to pay for without thinking very much on it:
>>
>>    - Technical training renewal from version to version
>>    - Good technical doc for each new version.
>>    - Good reference site
>>    - Videos and good training material.
>>    - Specific industries cases of use / success
>>    - Modelizing different industries sectors using OpenERP standar
>>    modules without using custom modules.
>>    - Shared nice real solutions.
>>    - Good qualified leads. I said qualified... :)
>>
>> I say again. It's not wanting to fight. It's just telling you several
>> things that we are missing from begining.
>>
>> Thank you very much:
>> Ana
>>
>>
>> 2014-02-17 Carlos Vásquez <carlos.vasquez@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>>
>>> Hi Fabien,
>>>
>>> I do like your thoughts about the marketing strategy in general. I agree
>>> with the communication techniques you propose.
>>>
>>>
>>> *ERP vs. Apps*
>>>
>>> As our fellow partners stated, the main discussion point is which image
>>> we do want to market to our customers. Speaking about the ERP vs. Apps
>>> approach, I kind of agree with both you and the other partners. We do not
>>> spend one cent in marketing, we only follow-up sales of people that contact
>>> us. For now it has been enough to keep us busy and running. Those people
>>> who contact us are almost always looking for an ERP. We usually have to
>>> sell an implementation project where other ERP solutions are also
>>> participating, sometimes there are big ERP solutions (SAP, Dynamics,
>>> Oracle, etc), and usually there are local ERP solutions. I think dropping
>>> the ERP solution as a marketing point, would affect us in this market.
>>>
>>> But, we have more and more calls from people looking for a cheaper and
>>> faster solution for their problems. An ERP implementation is not affordable
>>> nor suitable for their business. We are getting ready to offer OpenERP in a
>>> way very similar to your SaaS offer. This offer will be ready very soon and
>>> we already have several customers waiting to test it. Also, we started
>>> doing fast, out-of-the-box implementations about 3 months ago to gain
>>> experience for our new "SaaS" offer. It has proven to be very successful.
>>> These customers are more prone to identify themselves with a solution
>>> marketed as business apps running together. Here I do understand your point
>>> and it will help to bring more customers for this line of service.
>>>
>>>
>>> *Open Source*
>>>
>>> Also, the first kind of customers are usually more interested in an Open
>>> Source solution and they often understand its benefits and it can be an
>>> important sale point for them. The later kind of customers, usually do not
>>> know about Open Source, and they do not care. They need a good, affordable
>>> and reliable solution for their needs. Open or closed is the same for them.
>>> So again, we do have here 2 ways of marketing this because there is in fact
>>> (as Ana said) 2 targets.
>>>
>>> The one thing that help us in the sale process is that our customers can
>>> easily find us in the partners directory. The new partners page with
>>> automatic country filter is doing a great job with this. Also the way you
>>> redirect all kind of leads to us.
>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe it is a good idea to separate the ERP/OpenSource and the
>>> Apps/Product approach. Is it really necessary to choose only one way? I
>>> always like simplicity, but in this case, focusing only one target may be
>>> wrong, it is worth the discussion.
>>>
>>>
>>> *Pull strategy*
>>>
>>> There is one more thing I think I can give some valuable feedback. The
>>> services you offer to partners are somewhat rigid in some cases. I would
>>> love to sell an Enterprise contract with every OpenERP implementation. But
>>> this is not possible. The OPW is not made for end-users, us partners we
>>> have to take part in the process. We have worked out several bugs with the
>>> support team. Our experience has been varied. Sometimes the person assigned
>>> to the bug can solve the problem in a reasonable time frame, other times we
>>> have ended up fixing it ourselves. In all cases we have to spend at least a
>>> couple of hours in total of our time. If our customer reports a bug, we
>>> have to test to know where is the problem. If there is something wrong with
>>> some official code and there is an OPW contract we can send it to your
>>> team. In most cases, your team needs several replies from us. They usually
>>> do not do a very good job finding the problem, we have to do some heavy
>>> testing for them as they keep rejecting the issue of proposing some
>>> simplistic workaround. For important bugs, we end up spending more than 2
>>> hours answering mails and doing remote desktop demo sessions. At the end we
>>> have to integrate and deploy the solution. I explain all of this because we
>>> have to charge several hours to our customers on top of an Enterprise
>>> contract. And we also need to support the localization and customizations.
>>> The total cost of support gets expensive. Of course your contract also
>>> includes migration. But if we want to use this service, we also need to
>>> charge some extra fee to migrate the localization and customizations. This
>>> is the main reason we do not sell Enterprise contracts very often, and the
>>> ones we have sold, are not renewing.
>>>
>>> For partners which do develop and do heavy customization, I find the
>>> Enterprise service and its pricing method very rigid. I am worried because
>>> we could work much better with your team and get you to earn more money,
>>> which is good for all of us. And for our new "SaaS" offer, I contacted you
>>> guys to work out something to include support from your team in our cost
>>> structure, but the only thing you have to offer is the regular Enterprise
>>> support with the usual "per user" pricing method. This will at least
>>> duplicate our cost for each user. This is not acceptable, nor is reflecting
>>> the reality. You know that in this kind of service, the amount of support
>>> is deluded because everyone is using the same exact code base. So we
>>> decided to go on our own, without your support. We ran some numbers, and we
>>> think it will be cheaper to support the platform ourselves, even with the
>>> migration process.
>>>
>>> So as of now, I do not think you have good service offer for us. The
>>> pricing structure do not work outside Europe of North America. I know and
>>> appreciate you are making efforts to adapt your prices. It has been a very
>>> good first step. But it is not enough. You have to differentiate
>>> configuration only partners, from development ones. We are more than open
>>> and willing to work with you. So, even if you make a great marketing
>>> strategy, the pull strategy you propose will not work very well in our
>>> particular case. I think it is the best way to go, we need to improve who
>>> does generating partners revenue will create revenue for OpenERP S.A.
>>>
>>>
>>> *Recap*
>>>
>>> All of this said. I do appreciate your efforts to involve the community,
>>> and do think that there are great things we (the partners) can do with you
>>> (OpenERP S.A.). A marketing investment in marketing will benefit us. And I
>>> do trust your judgment to integrate internal ideas with community
>>> suggestions into an excellent marketing strategy.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> --
>>> Carlos Vásquez
>>> CTO · Director de Ingeniería
>>> CLEARCORP S.A.
>>>
>>> carlos.vasquez@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Cel: +(506) 8351 4484
>>> CR: +(506) 4000 CORP (4000 2677)
>>> US: +1 (786) 472-4267
>>> skype: crvasquez
>>> twitter: cvclearcorp
>>>
>>> 300 m. Este de la Escuela
>>> Calle de Platanares
>>> 11402 San Jerónimo, Moravia
>>> San José, Costa Rica
>>> (GoogleMaps: http://goo.gl/8YqM4S)
>>>
>>> http://www.clearcorp.co.cr
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> CEO Avanzosc, S.L <http://www.avanzosc.es> : Office phone / Tfono
>> oficina: (+34) 943 02 69 02
>> Ana Juaristi Olalde <http://www.anajuaristi.com/>: Personal phone: 677
>> 93 42 59. User/usuario skype: Avanzosc
>> www.openerpsite.com
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Yury Tello Canchapoma
> TeraData SAC
> http://www.teradata.com.pe
> Telecomunicaciones, Software & Seguridad
>
> Telef.:(+51 1) 5362222 anexo 20
> Av. Arenales 395 Of. 507 - Lima 1 - Peru
>
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