openstack team mailing list archive

[Armando Migliaccio <Armando.Migliaccio@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I am a bit lost...what has size got to do with relationship?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jay Pipes [mailto:jaypipes@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: 15 February 2012 14:36
> To: Gabe Westmaas
> Cc: Armando Migliaccio; Martin Paulo; openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Openstack] Remove Zones code - FFE
>
> On 02/15/2012 09:13 AM, Gabe Westmaas wrote:
> > I think this thing we call zones is fundamentally different from an
> Availability Zone or a Host Aggregate.  An Availability Zone is about
> redundancy, a Host Aggregate is about capabilities, and a Zone is about
> infrastructure performance.
>
> That is an awesome way of describing the differences.
>
>  >I could easily imagine an Availability Zone larger than a Zone, and vice
> versa, thus I want to be cautious about talking about the relationships
> between them.
>
> Very true.

I would disagree with this, maybe if you could elaborate a bit more...

To me an availability zone is a partition of the infrastructure that can fail as a whole. I increase the reliability of my cloud app by deploying across multiple availability zones. To this aim, I would keep an availability zone as small as possible. A zone is for load balancing on a large (geographical) scale. I can scale my cloud app horizontally by deploying it in multiple zones.

This way of arranging a cloud app would imply the following options:

a) zones contains availability zones
b) zones and availability zones are arranged in a grid

but to me a) is way easier to understand.

>
>  >And I think host aggregates are way too powerful an idea to keep inside
> either of those boxes as well.
>
> Perhaps, yes.
>
> > In the new implementation we don't have entire openstack deployments - we
> have parts of an openstack deployment.  Hypervisors, DB, and the queuing
> service are all that are the new Zones.  Words that make the most sense to me
> are words that talk about that split rather than words that talk about
> location or aggregation.
>
> Eventually, though, even the hypervisor wouldn't be unique in a Zone, right?
> HostAggregates would take over the role of exposing virtualization capacity
> and abilities... so really, a Zone is just the partition of DB and MQ that
> services a segment of HostAggregates?
>
> > Slice, section, segment, sector, division, partition - something along those
> lines.
>
> Slice is overloaded from Slicehost...
>
> Partition is fairly overloaded from filesystem and database terminology...
>
> Segment has network connotations...
>
> Sector has disk/drive connotations...
>
> Perhaps division is the only one left out of the above that seems to fit the
> bill? :)
>
> -jay
>
> > Gabe
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > openstack-bounces+gabe.westmaas=rackspace.com@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:openstack-bounces+gabe.westmaas=rackspace.com@lists.launchpad.
> > net] On Behalf Of Armando Migliaccio
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 6:36 AM
> > To: Martin Paulo; Jay Pipes
> > Cc: openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: Re: [Openstack] Remove Zones code - FFE
> >
> > -1 for ServerGroup because in the OSAPI terminology Server is a guest
> instance rather than a physical host.
> >
> > I assume that the relationship between zone and availability zone will still
> exist (and I remind you that host-aggregates have been coming along to). So
> you have:
> >
> > ??<-->  Availability Zones<-->  Host Aggregates
> >
> > How about ?? == Deployment [Slice | Area | or Section]
> >
> > I know that Region may not be liked by some people, but that is good too.
> >
> > Armando
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:
> >> openstack-bounces+armando.migliaccio=eu.citrix.com@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> openstack-bounces+t
> >> [mailto:openstack-
> >> bounces+armando.migliaccio=eu.citrix.com@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
> >> bounces+Behalf Of
> >> Martin Paulo
> >> Sent: 14 February 2012 23:34
> >> To: Jay Pipes
> >> Cc: openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: Re: [Openstack] Remove Zones code - FFE
> >>
> >> ServerGroup gets my vote at the moment: it's a term that has an
> >> overloaded meaning (as far as I know)
> >>
> >> Martin
> >>
> >> On 15 February 2012 06:25, Jay Pipes<jaypipes@xxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
> >>> -1 on shard b/c of database terminology. -1 on cluster because of
> >>> HPC and database terminology.
> >>>
> >>> Zone was originally used because it is general -- referring to
> >>> merely a collection of hosts or other zones and not having a
> >>> geographic connotation like Region does.
> >>>
> >>> Other possibilities:
> >>>
> >>> * Container (not recommended, as it is overloaded with Solaris or
> >>> Linux container virtualization)
> >>> * ServerGroup
> >>> * HostGroup
> >>> * Group
> >>> * Collection
> >>>
> >>> If Zone isn't used, I suppose I would prefer ServerGroup
> >>>
> >>> -jay
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 02/13/2012 08:45 PM, Yun Mao wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> agreed..
> >>>>
> >>>> -1 on shard, +1 on cluster
> >>>>
> >>>> Yun
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 7:59 PM, Martin
> >>>> Paulo<martin.paulo@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>   wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please not 'shards'
> >>>>> Sharding as a concept is so intertwined with databases IMHO that
> >>>>> it will serve to confuse even more. Why not 'cluster'?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Martin
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 13 February 2012 09:50, Chris Behrens<cbehrens@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sorry, I'm late.  Really getting down to the wire here. :)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I've thrown up a version here:
> >>>>>> https://review.openstack.org/#change,4062
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I've not functionally tested it yet, but there's really good test
> >>>>>> coverage for the zones service itself.   I also have added a
> >>>>>> test_compute_zones which tests that all of the compute tests pass
> >>>>>> while using the new ComputeZonesAPI class.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There's a couple bugs I note in the review and then I think I'm
> >>>>>> missing pushing some instance updates to the top in libvirt code.
> >>>>>> And missing an update for instance deletes in the compute manager.
> >>>>>> Going to hit those up today and finish this off.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> One other comment:  It's been suggested we not call this stuff 'Zones'
> >>>>>> anymore.  It gets confused with availability zones and so forth.
> >>>>>> Since this is really a way to shard nova, it has been suggested
> >>>>>> to call
> >> this 'Shards'.
> >>>>>> :)   Not sure I dig that name completely, although it makes sense.
> >>>>>>   Thoughts?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - Chris
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Feb 9, 2012, at 10:29 AM, Leandro Reox wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Awesome Chrisssss !!!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Lean
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 3:26 PM, Alejandro
> >>>>>>> Comisario<alejandro.comisario@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>    wrote:
> >>>>>>> Niceee !!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Alejandro.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 02/09/2012 02:02 PM, Chris Behrens wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I should be pushing something up by end of day...  Even if it's
> >>>>>>>> not granted an FFE, I'll have a need to keep my branch updated
> >>>>>>>> and working, so I should at least always have a branch pushed
> >>>>>>>> up to a github account somewhere until F1 opens up.  So, I
> >>>>>>>> guess worst case... there'll be a branch somewhere for you to
> >>>>>>>> play with. :)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> - Chris
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Feb 8, 2012, at 3:21 PM, Tom Fifield wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Just raising another deployment waiting on this new Zone
> >>>>>>>>> implementation - we currently have 2000 cores sitting idle in
> >>>>>>>>> another datacentre that we can use "better" if this is done.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> How can we help? ;)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Tom
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 02/08/2012 07:30 PM, Ziad Sawalha wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> We were working on providing the necessary functionality in
> >>>>>>>>>> Keystone but stopped when we heard of the alternative solution.
> >>>>>>>>>> We could resume the conversation about what is needed on the
> >>>>>>>>>> Keystone side and implement if needed.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Z
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> From: Sandy Walsh<
> >>>>>>>>>> sandy.walsh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:sandy.walsh@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 01:49:58 +0000
> >>>>>>>>>> To: Joshua McKenty<
> >>>>>>>>>> joshua@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:joshua@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> , Vishvananda Ishaya
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> <
> >>>>>>>>>> vishvananda@xxxxxxxxx<mailto:vishvananda@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Cc: "
> >>>>>>>>>> openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>"<openstack@lists.launc
> >>>>>>>>>> hp ad.net<mailto:openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Openstack] Remove Zones code - FFE
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Understood, timing is everything. I'll let Chris talk about
> >>>>>>>>>> expected timing for the replacement. From a deployers side,
> >>>>>>>>>> nothing would really change, just some configuration options
> >>>>>>>>>> ... but a replacement should be available.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I'm sure we could get it working pretty easily. The Keystone
> >>>>>>>>>> integration was the biggest pita.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I can keep this branch fresh with trunk for when we're ready
> >>>>>>>>>> to pull the trigger.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -S
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> ---------
> >>>>>>>>>> *From:* Joshua McKenty [
> >>>>>>>>>> joshua@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:joshua@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  ]
> >>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 01, 2012 4:45 PM
> >>>>>>>>>> *To:* Vishvananda Ishaya
> >>>>>>>>>> *Cc:* Sandy Walsh;
> >>>>>>>>>> openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:openstack@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Openstack] Remove Zones code - FFE
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> +1 to Vish's points. I know there are some folks coming
> >>>>>>>>>> +online in
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> Folsom timeline that can help out with the new stuff, but
> >>>>>>>>>> this feels a bit like going backwards.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> Joshua McKenty, CEO
> >>>>>>>>>> Piston Cloud Computing, Inc.
> >>>>>>>>>> w: (650) 24-CLOUD
> >>>>>>>>>> m: (650) 283-6846
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.pistoncloud.com
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "Oh, Westley, we'll never survive!"
> >>>>>>>>>> "Nonsense. You're only saying that because no one ever has."
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 1, 2012 at 12:41 PM, Vishvananda
> >>>>>>>>>> Ishaya
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I am all for pulling this out, but I'm a bit concerned with
> >>>>>>>>>>> the fact that we have nothing to replace it with. There are
> >>>>>>>>>>> some groups still trying to use it. MercadoLibre is trying
> >>>>>>>>>>> to use it for example. I know you guys are trying to replace
> >>>>>>>>>>> this with something better, but it would be nice not to
> >>>>>>>>>>> break people for 7+ months
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> So I guess I have some questions:
> >>>>>>>>>>> 1.a) is the current implementation completely broken?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> 1.b) if yes, is it fixable
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> 2) If we do remove this, what can we tell people that need
> >>>>>>>>>>> something like zones between now and the Folsom release?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Vish
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 1, 2012, at 12:16 PM, Sandy Walsh wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> As part of the new (and optional) Zones code coming down
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the pipe, part of this is to remove the old Zones implementation.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> More info in the merge prop:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://review.openstack.org/#change,3629
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> So, can I? can I? Huh?
> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> ==================================================================
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Martin Paulo, BSc.
> >>>>> Software Developer
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Tel :         +61-3-9434 2508 (Home) Tel :          04 205 20339
> >>>>> (Mobile)
> >>>>> Site:          http://www.thepaulofamily.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Nobody goes there any more. It's too crowded" - Yogi Berra.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> ==================================================================
> >>
> >> Martin Paulo, BSc.
> >> Software Developer
> >>
> >> Tel :         +61-3-9434 2508 (Home)
> >> Tel :          04 205 20339      (Mobile)
> >> Site:          http://www.thepaulofamily.net
> >>
> >> "Nobody goes there any more. It's too crowded" - Yogi Berra.
> >>
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