torios-dev team mailing list archive

[Israel <israeldahl@xxxxxxxxx>]

On 12/17/2016 08:27 AM, Nio Wiklund wrote:
> Den 2016-12-17 kl. 14:04, skrev Israel:
>> On 12/16/2016 08:15 AM, Nio Wiklund wrote:
>>> Den 2016-12-15 kl. 20:58, skrev Nio Wiklund:
>>>> Den 2016-12-13 kl. 09:06, skrev Nio Wiklund:
>>>>> Den 2016-12-13 kl. 04:37, skrev Israel:
>> Hi Nio,
>> (reply at end)
>>>
>>> Hi again Israel,
>>>
>>> I continue with the test report, now from VirtualBox:
>>>
>>>
>>> *1. Boot and install with minimum RAM.*
>>>
>>> vbox: mem=192m ok, 128m & 160m kernel panic at boot, 192m advanced OBI
>>> level ok
>>>
>>> I limited the RAM available with the boot option mem.
>>>
>>> *mem=160m*
>>>
>>> Kernel panic at boot. This happens while text is written to the screen.
>>>
>>> *mem=192m*
>>>
>>> ToriOS live boot into the desktop environment, and it is possible to
>>> run the OBI installer as well as gparted. I tested at the basic OBI
>>> level and at the advanced OBI level.
>>>
>>> Installing the pae kernel works too.
>>>
>>> This means that the current compression of the tarball does not
>>> increase the minimum RAM level.
>>>
>>>
>>> *2. The time is offset by one hour in the installed system.*
>>>
>>> The utc time is wrong as seen by
>>>
>>> date -u
>>>
>>> (one hour ahead of the real utc). I tested in the same virtual
>>> machine, and Lubuntu 14.04 (also installed) is not affected by this
>>> bug.
>>>
>>> The live system runs in utc and 'looks' ok (here this time of the year
>>> because of the one hour difference to my local time), but it is also
>>> wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>> *3. I installed into the Toshiba again, this time with mem=192m*
>>>
>>> It seems that the time bug is only affecting VBox - It is correct in
>>> my Toshiba.
>>>
>>> The computer booted, gparted and the installer worked.
>>>
>>> *4. ToriOS installed works with mem=128m*
>>>
>>> Just for testing I tried to boot the installed system (as it is, with
>>> the JWM window manager and the whole ToriOS desktop environment). It
>>> boots and runs. OK, it needs some swapping, but works. htop indicates
>>> 67 MB swap used, as illustrated with the screenshot (faint contrast,
>>> but you should see it at the correct viewing angle).
>>>
>>> This system could be installed in text mode (for example with the
>>> original One Button Installer, or if cloned into a compressed image
>>> file and installed with mkusb-nox or dus) or simply installed to the
>>> drive in another computer with more RAM and moved to the low-RAM
>>> computer afterwards.
>>>
>>> Would it be useful - would anyone want to use it for practical
>>> purposes? Maybe for simple word processing and communication via a
>>> simple mail client. Probably it is useful only as a demo of what is
>>> possible.
>>>
>>>
>>> *5. Tested in my IBM Thinkpad with Pentium M*
>>>
>>> 5.1 I could verify the limits for RAM also in this old computer. It
>>> works with 192 MB (but not with 160 MB: kernel panic at boot).
>>>
>>> 5.2 I noticed a difference: here I got the *firstrun* features, things
>>> to install and an offer to update the standard folders to my current
>>> language. (These showed up neither in VirtualBox nor in my Toshiba).
>>>
>>> 5.3 And there is a trashcan on the desktop (it is missing in the
>>> Toshiba, I checked (and I think in VirtualBox too)).
>>>
>>> (The wifi is available in the installed system, which was also the
>>> case in the Toshiba).
>>>
>>>
>>> *Summary concerning RAM - 192 MB RAM*
>>>
>>> This version of ToriOS runs live, can be installed and works installed
>>> with 192 MB RAM.
>>>
>>> But for the internet with many bloated web pages you need
>>>
>>> - at least 512 MB RAM for fair browsing quality
>>> - at least 1.0 GB RAM for good browsing quality
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> Nio
>> Thanks for finding the time issue.  I have since reset the ntp in the
>> base tarball by running:
>> sudo apt install ntp
>> ntp -q -x -g
>>
>> This fixes it (or should).
>> I am not sure what is off to make it this way, but the next tarball/ISO
>> should be better
>>
>> So, basically we are stuck at around 192MB.  I know I was able to
>> install precise in 128MB ram, on both real and virtual machines, and use
>> only about 100MB (lots of swapping.
>> I do not think there is any way we can get around this issue now, unless
>> we can do something with swap?  Any ideas?
>>   And I agree that 1 Gig is the real limit for a really usable
>> computer.  512 is decent, but the loading time for certain apps can be
>> concerning, and sometimes the browser can crash on certain web pages...
>> though that may be the additional problem of the CPU.
>>
>> 1 Gig is very little RAM by today's standards and not many other DE can
>> really compete with the speed of ToriOS with that little RAM.  The menus
>> are instant (since they are preloaded lists) which is great for those
>> computers with <512.
>>
>> In summary, the current huge compression makes the OS require around
>> 256MB if I remember and the normal compression requires 192 MB
>>
>> It is possible to use 128MB RAM, but impractical.  If users come to us
>> with a specific need for this we can address it, but for now I think we
>> should advocate 192-256MB as the minimum.
>>
>
> Hi Israel,
>
> 1. Great that you have a solution for the time issue already.
>
> 2. We agree about the RAM :-)
>
> Actually, 'the compression' needs less RAM, or to be exact, extracting
> from the tarball needs less than 192 MiB RAM. The limit is set during
> boot (before getting into the graphics mode), and I think it is
>
> *not worthwhile for us to work around that problem*
>
> Maybe zram would help, but only if it can be activated before the
> kernel panic. There are problems with zram, it is not quite reliable.
>
> Best regards
> Nio

Hi Nio,

I have thought about zram recently as well.  I think Chromebooks use
zram, so there might be some good documentation about working around any
issues.

I think we have had a brief discussion about this in the past as well. 
But maybe that was about booting ToriOS into ram (like puppy) that I am
remembering.

I wonder if there is some sort of kernel module, or parameter that could
be set to help boot in less memory.  The kernel can definitely boot with
less memory, as it runs on tiny embedded boards.  maybe something to
look into, but perhaps we have no real need to do much to on this front.

-- 
Regards