ubuntu-manual team mailing list archive

[Patrick Dickey <pdickeybeta@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi John,

I've already expressed my opinion about the release schedule in another
email here, so I won't go into it below. But, otherwise my
comments/questions are inline. Please understand that I've been around
for a while, so my questions may come off as accusatory or rude, but
they most certainly are not meant to be that way. 

On Wed, 2012-07-25 at 10:28 +1200, John Cave wrote: 
> 
> On Sun, Jul 1, 2012, at 02:11 PM, Kevin Godby wrote:
> > Hello, everyone.
> > 
> > I intend for this message to start a mailing list thread and
> > discussion to review how things worked (and didn't work) during the
> > process of creating Getting Started with Ubuntu 12.04.  This is a
> > general discussion thread, but I'll include some questions to get
> > things started. You're welcome to answer any, all, or none of the
> > questions as they apply and to speak generally about any other topics
> > that come to mind.
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > 
> > What did you think of the process overall?
> Very streamlined and on time.
> > 
> > Was this your first time contributing to the manual project?  If so,
> > how did you hear about the project?  Why did you decide to get
> > involved?  Did you have trouble getting started with the project?
> > Were the other team members helpful enough?
> The other team members were especially helpful, however the problem i
> have is trying to use Tex through a proxy at the only place i get any
> sort of interent access. I submitted my additions through an ODT but
> they were not included in the finished manual...?
> > 

Were you aware that you could get access to a Google Docs version of the
manual, and do your writing there?  If not, how would you suggest making
this more clear to new authors (as it was in the emails from the group)?

> > If you decided not to get involved in the manual project for this
> > cycle, why not?  What could we change that would increase the
> > likelihood of you getting involved in the project?
> > 
> > How did you like your role (author, editor, translator, etc.) in this
> > cycle?  Do you think you'd like to take on that same role again?
> > Would you like to try a different role in the future?
> I would take on the roll again if my work got included this time.
> > 

Along the lines of the first comment, did you contact Kevin, Hannie, or
John about the issues with accessing the .tex files?  I'm sure that your
work not being included wasn't intentional. And I'm willing to bet that
now that they understand the issues you were having, the editors will
help you to get your work done in a format that they can accept.

> > Did you find it difficult to use any of the tools for our project
> > (e.g., bzr, LaTeX)?
> LaTeX only because of the TMG at my school, which blocks pretty much any
> traffic not from a recognised web browser.
> > 

So, if I'm reading this correctly, the issue wasn't so much with the
LaTeX files, but trying to upload/download them with bzr? I ask this,
because bzr is the pipe (so to speak) that the LaTeX files travel on.
The LaTeX files are just text files with formatting code in them. So
your proxy shouldn't care about the files, but probably didn't like the
way you were transmitting them.

> > What did you think of the release schedule?  Did it take too long to
> > release the manual?  Did you feel rushed in your work? Did you have
> > enough time to do everything you wanted to do?
> We don't have to have the manual out that soon after Ubuntu,
> particularly for a LTS release, for an in between release nothing much
> changes anyway, and most users with moderate experience in computing
> *should* be able to follow the last in the time between Ubuntu's release
> and the manual.
> > 
> > How well did the other team members communicate with you? Did you know
> > what you were expected to do at each step of the process?  Were you
> > ever lost or confused about what you could work on?
> I did get a little lost about what part of the manual i was supposed to
> be working on, but that was maybe me misunderstanding and being new.
> > 

Don't feel bad. I was a bit lost this cycle too. One thing that didn't
help (and was corrected later on, IIRC) was that the links provided in
group messages pointed to the website--not to the spreadsheet that told
us exactly who was doing what.

> > Did you feel that you had sufficient knowledge and skills to do the
> > work that was requested of you?  Do you think that training or
> > teaching by other team members would help?
> Easy! We don't exactly cover anything in depth like setting up a Squid
> cache or Apache web server, both of which i have done in the past...
> > 

Mental note.... I know who to call if I decide to play around with
Squid.

> > What do you think the team should do to improve the process for 12.10?
> Clearer directions, but I was new, so i should probably expect to get a
> little lost the first time around. :)
> > 

This is where I'd ask you to be more specific (if I had any right to ;-)
). And I know that's hard, because the old saying (or new old saying)
goes "how can I ask the right questions, if I don't know what the right
questions are?" Or If I don't know what I'm doing, and don't understand,
how can I ask good questions to get the answers that I need?

So, let's see if I can guess a bit (and please correct me or add to my
list):

1.  Links to the spreadsheets need to be available, so you can find out
what's expected of you at any point in time.
2.  Make sure that everyone knows that they have the option of working
in Google Docs, instead of having to deal with the LaTeX files.
2a. Along side of 2, maybe a welcome letter to each author explaining
how to do certain things--like the option of how to work on your
materials.
3.  Knowing the chain of command (who your editor is, who else you can
contact if you have issues) from the beginning. (Presumably in the
"welcome letter" from 2a)
4.  Clear instructions on how to set up your system, take screenshots,
upload and download using bzr, etc.

Hopefully I covered most of the confusing parts here, and again, please
correct me if I'm wrong, or add to the list, if necessary. 

Also, if you're not able to work in the Google Docs, or upload the LaTeX
files, maybe it can be worked out, where you send your odt file to
someone, and they can convert it for you. Since it really doesn't matter
*who* uploads the revisions, as long as they're uploaded.

Hopefully I didn't come off as too rude or condescending. It wasn't my
intention. And hopefully I'm not overstepping my bounds here. If I have,
then I'm sorry for that.

Have a great day:)
Patrick.