ubuntu-phone team mailing list archive

[Marcin Xc <gtriderxc@xxxxxxxxx>]

You asked me if was a developer. My teacher at school taught us how every programming task should start and end. These were something like 5steps. You laugh probably at the moment, cause it is only the beginner theory and then comes real life. That's also why the only thing that I remember from these 5 is that successful software development should start with planning the expectations and end with satisfying test results. That's why google that You wrote about is successful: they do not release not working alpha versions with the main update killing bluetooth (12.04) or... or look Yourself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzfnrLCJOkQ&feature=youtu.be


I'm a human being that do not badly need to have convergence in a >phone< that doesn't fulfill the >phone< conditions.Let me translate it this way:we build a car. A car should take You from point A to B relative efficiently. But then one day You say: "hey! I'd like to hear some music in my car and have air conditioning!". So You put there a radio and air conditioning. Somehow You forget that the power consumption of a radio is to big so You have not enough energy to turn on the light in the evening: You can drive only during the day, but heyyy! You've got the radio! The engine was to weak to power the air conditioning so when You turn it on, You can drive only 50 mph though at the beginning max speed was 100mph. Then some day You decide to umount the rear seat and put there a TV set. Soooo cooool!Before You add another function, check twice if the phone is still a working phone or in Ubuntu Phone case, if You want to proceed, double check that there is nothing to be done better with what You've got already.
Let's sum it up:1. I can check e-mail with my phone but I can't hear an incoming message.2. ...3. ...4. ... no I'm not gonna list here all the bugs.
But I can tell You how >I< would make this project successful.1. Planning: I'm about to release a >phone< not a car without wheels but with Facebook access. So step first: the phone/message/contacts/alarm clock functions have to work PERFECTLY!1a) ->especially in ubuntu case-> what is Your target audience? Is this gonna be a phone for geeks only or is my mother also ALLOWED to use it?
2. If You already have the phone You have Your basis: now You can spoil and "remove any functionalities/services/"libraries" "over the years" (Radics). You can spoil everything but NOT THE BASIS! People will be delighted to have a working >Ubuntu phone<. From this point You can go further:
3. You look at other devices that were already on the market. Community helps You to develop same functions as the other devices have to offer: music player, >!Bluetooth<, Facebook/Instagram access, apps, hot spot etc. etc.
If Your device work as a phone, You can try to sell it to the market just as a basic phone. Then proudly announce another big steps in development. What Canonical tends to do is giving empty promisses ("4K recording"?) and then disappointing. Nokia was successful cause they went the way I described giving no chance to competition from Ericsson, Sony, Siemens, Alcatel(lol), Panasonic, who heard then about Samsung SGH-250? Every 50'th person? But everyone knows what 3210 was until today, don't You?If I had a company and at first started to shout about convergence and then closed the project, I'd start to think about rebranding. "They are the ones who didn't make it". "They are the ones who promised us 4K recording". "They are the ones who promised us...". Now go back to point 1a and ask Yourself if all these promises are a good idea.

So all in all my friend, You can be the best developer and I can be the worst. What's the big difference if one of us goes the right way and the other one not the best way? It is not only about libraries.

Cheers
Marcin

      From: Radics Geza <radicsge@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 To: Marcin Xc <gtriderxc@xxxxxxxxx> 
Cc: Ubuntu-phone <ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 11:08 AM
 Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] What's the plan for Ubuntu Phone in 2017?
  
Hi, 

If sby say "hater" it is not about critisism, but about style.
Are you a developer? Actually I know the answer, because of your questions.
Sometimes, in order to introduce new things (use new libraries etc) you have to give up on functionality, which might come back over time (when resources spent there). It is not UT specific e.g. many functionalities removed from "cloud services" because they don't scale.
Do you think all windows update is without issue? Do you think google hasn't removed any functionalities/services over the years?
System like these are complex, not like a simple equation..

bests
g.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] What's the plan for Ubuntu Phone in 2017?
Local Time: December 16, 2016 5:48 PM
UTC Time: December 16, 2016 9:48 AM
From: gtriderxc@xxxxxxxxx
To: tallien <3mzuffuthc@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Ubuntu-phone <ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

No, no, >NO< Tallien. It tried to function properly before someone put the text markers from under to over the text position. The markers were still to small but the accuracy was far higher than a marker over the word we want to mark. Now I get as a bug fix a pencil? Yes, I have one but... HELLO? >>>Just put these blue dots where they were and if You already edit the code make them a bit bigger. How is that hard???
But I bet You miss the point again: it is not about this single but. It is about whole attitude to the system. There seem to be no people like me who can give a critical opinion and only people who fell in love with UT no matter comes. If by the next OTA for example the web browser disappears it will also be no problem for You: You'll tell me to use Links2.
And the answer is here from NeoTheThird:
"What he just said. Could not agree more. Ubuntu Touch is good"I didn't say it is not. I just put You an easy to solve problem in front of the eyes and some of You guys will keep on telling me, there is no problem.

Some of You just accept any step back without seeing it:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/1284308 <<this bug occured with the release of Ubuntu 12.04. I'll say it again, before 12.04 there were no bluetooth problems.

For the third time, these are not the biggest problems of mine. These were only examples of the attitude to the development: if I was a developer who makes a change to the text markers or bluetooth, I'd test it whether it is a good or bad change. And some of You just accept solutions that don't work in 90% of cases only because they work better with 10% cases that are "cool".

What I also noticed is that every time I try to show a problem, some of You see me as a hater. It is really not the point. If I was a hater I wouldn't use devices that I hate. Any project needs a reasonable criticism to not let make steps backward. Ubuntu gave us in its history to many examples how to go back.

Cheers

Marcin 

ps.

I hate that level 25 in a hard mode: can't pass it. That's my real and biggest problem with UT! All these machines still pass through ;-))))

From: tallien <3mzuffuthc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
 To: ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
 Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 11:52 PM
 Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] What's the plan for Ubuntu Phone in 2017?
Don't know if this helps you, but I found to my pleasant surprise that
using a rubber-tipped stylus of a narrow width increased my
speed and accuracy greatly when trying to select/edit text.

I hope development continues on UT, as I would much rather avoid
using a Microsoft or Apple phone if I didn't have to! I am glad I got
my Meizu Pro 5 before it sold out and would rather have it than anything
else.

When I donated previously I seem to recall there was an option to
select what you would like the devs to work on. I always chose desktop
plus phone/tablet. I see they have changed the options to vote for now
when you download, but "personal and mobile computing" are still
listed, so that's what I'll continue to vote for with my next donation.

Please keep up the good work on UT, I need my Ubuntu phone! :)

On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 23:26:59 +0100 NeoTheThird wrote:

>What he just said. Could not agree more. Ubuntu Touch is good. But
>could be awesome. So why don't we make it awesome?
>
>Regards,
>
>NeoTheThird
>
>
>On 15.12.2016 22:59, Marcin Xc wrote:
>> I love the idea of Ubuntu phone and pay great respect to all 
>> developers. The only phone I could use again if there was no UT any 
>> more would be my old Nokia:-)
>> I have however this ugly nature of telling people what I do not like 
>> in a project directly in the eyes. There are a few things that kill 
>> this project right from the start. I hate all these small bugs that 
>> are 5-30 minutes work to repair but noone cares. I understand there 
>> are hundreds of bugs: some of them are just someones colourful 
>> fantasy, some of them less important than the others and there is 
>> noone to decide which should be fixed as a first one.
>> Let me give You two examples (for these two reasons I wouldn't give 
>> You a dollar if You asked me a 100):
>> 1. Marking a text. I mean these blue dots that are to small and
>> since OTA12 above the text!!! or let's say it straight: under Your
>> finger. Let's say it simply: it is a pretty important function,
>> especially because some apps do not cooperate with the phone app
>> very well. You do not have to rewrite a system to repair it and
>> let's say it straight: it does not work.
>> 2. This will be silly. Yes, You may find it silly but as I wrote 
>> already many times: first things first. Let this phone first calls
>> and rings correctly and then let us think about more complicated
>> things. So again, with full respect to all developers, I love that
>> You repaired the sms notification problem, but there is no way to
>> hear my E4.5 on the street. Some 250ms beep doesn't do the job. I
>> know I can probably just replace the *.ogg file the the one I like
>> but... what about all these people who can't do this? How "hard" is
>> it to repair this problem?
>> Perhaps I use wrong examples that You do not like but I hope You got 
>> the idea. This is the same thing as with bluetooth that doesn't work 
>> correctly since Ubuntu 12.04 though it used to work!!!
>> I really do not want to offend anyone but with such an attitude to
>> the development I simply can not write anything else. I like my
>> phone and love the tablet from which I wrote this message but can
>> not understand why simple things (for example my M10 doesn't open
>> ebay page correctly) need so long to repair.
>>
>> There seems to be totally no quality management for Ubuntu touch.
>>
>> So... now as You all hate me, I'll kill some Mashines in my
>> absolutely favourite game ever. Michael Zanetti, You made me play a
>> game! No one ever did it before;-)))
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Marcin
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* advocatux 
>> *To:* ubuntu-phone <ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 15, 2016 4:38 PM
>> *Subject:* [Ubuntu-phone] What's the plan for Ubuntu Phone in 2017?
>>
>> Dear Ubuntu Developers & Supporters, first of all thank you for your
>> work. Also Happy Holidays, and Happy New Year.
>>
>> I do think this is the perfect time to talk about Ubuntu Phone (UP)
>> and its next future.
>>
>> Mark Suttleworth said in May UP is not in the main focus, and that
>> his daily phone is not UP [0], but I don't interpreted it as far as
>> Bryan Lunduke (Social Media Marketing Manager of SUSE) does, when
>> talking about his 2016 predictions [1]:
>>
>> "(Prediction for 2016) Canonical will pull away from phones.
>>
>> Canonical/Ubuntu pulling away from the phone market? This is a hard
>> one to measure.
>>
>> Wait. No, it’s not.
>>
>> The last press release from Canonical that was phone-related was
>> back in April. And the main press page for Canonical doesn’t list a
>> single thing about phones. The last several announcements from
>> Canonical have been very enterprise-centric. Even in the lead up to
>> the holiday shopping season, not a peep about phones.
>>
>> Nailed it. Canonical pulled away from phones during 2016 in order to
>> focus on enterprise functionality."
>>
>>
>> Personally, I simply do think is just a question of time, and I have
>> great faith in the UP project.
>>
>> So Dear Devs, what's the plan for 2017? How can we help to speed up
>> Ubuntu Phone development? What can we do to get UP to play in the
>> "First Division"?
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> --
>> advocatux
>>
>>
>> [0]
>> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/05/mark-shuttle-worth-talks-ubuntu-phone-snappy
>>
>> [1]
>> http://www.networkworld.com/article/3145664/linux/2016-linux-predictions-which-ones-came-true.html
>>
>> -- 
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone 
>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-phone>
>> Post to    : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>> <mailto:ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone 
>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-phone>

>> More help  : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>>
>>
>



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