unity-design team mailing list archive

[Conscious User <conscioususer@xxxxxxx>]

I have seen this movie before, and its original title was
"the issues with moving window buttons to the left".

Back when the left-sided buttons were introduced in the
Lucid cycle, I'd feel a lot more confortable if someone
had stepped in and said "we made usability studies and
are confident that the risk of misclicks will not
increase significatively".

Now, I'd feel a lot more confortable if someone steps
in and says "a hung window can still be easily closed
when using CSD because of technical reasons X, Y and Z".

In both cases, some evidence that the issue is receiving
*some* thought, and not simply being brushed off as
something non-important, would be welcome.

And in both cases, reasons for the change that go a
little bit beyond mere speculation would also be welcome.

Mark only revealed the Window Indicators idea after
Lucid was released, and to this day a solid plan on
which windicators will be implemented and how has
not seen the light of day. So we have all the hassles
and no advantages. Only *potential* for advantages
that has not been used.

Likewise, "suppose we want a sparkle effect" or "suppose
we want to draw a circle" or "suppose we want to do
this thing that kwin already does without CSD" does not
exactly inspire confidence enough to convince anyone
that CSD is worthy of all the problems Martin brought up.

One use case. *ONE*. A single one. Solid, reasonable
and non-speculative. It is all he is asking for. And
as a particularly vocal protester against the
window buttons change, I'm interested on it as well.


Le mercredi 09 juin 2010 à 13:23 -0400, Scott Kitterman a écrit :
> Still proxying for Martin.
> 
> On Wednesday, June 09, 2010 01:02:14 pm Martin Gräßlin wrote:
> > Am Mittwoch 09 Juni 2010, 06:13:17 schrieb Ted Gould:
> > > Cool, that is great!  But, I'm worried that we're approaching this from
> > > different assumptions.  My reaction there is "let's figure out how to
> > > make CSD work" while yours seems to be "let's figure out how to get
> > > window decorations to work."  So, I guess my question is: If we assume
> > > that the window manager isn't going to draw decorations, how can we make
> > > that works as good as possible with KWin?
> > 
> > Please tell me you are joking. After all the arguments I presented you
> > still think CSD is the road to go? You completely ignore my arguments, you
> > actually have not even read my arguments or you would know that some
> > things like closing hung windows or aligning window buttons are
> > impossible.
> > 
> > All I wanted was to start a discussion about what is missing in
> > decorations. It's not me who wants to keep window decorations, it's you
> > who want to replace something working with a broken concept. And you
> > should at least be able to present one valid use case what can only be
> > achieved with CSD. So far you only proofed that you have no idea what's
> > possible with window decorations. This mail is quite a slap into my face
> > and an insult. I really hope this is not the attitude Ubuntu stands for
> > today. I thought it was about "humanity".
> > 
> > I wanted to offer my help. I saw that you are heading in the wrong
> > direction based on the missinformation that you cannot achieve certain
> > theming options with window decorations. As I presented several times in
> > this thread all you want is possible right now in kwin. Apparently you did
> > not even take the time to look through the mails on the wm-spec mailing
> > list or my blog posts of the last half year.
> > 
> > I'm totally shocked. I hope for the future of Ubuntu that you will learn
> > that you cannot ignore your Upstreams. And you can be sure that I won't
> > spent one minute on fixing any issue caused by CSD in kwin. Bug reports
> > will be set to invalid and I will enforce window decorations on CSD
> > windows, if it is necessary. It would be unacceptable that windows cannot
> > be closed if they hung.
> > 
> > I wish you all the best, but I feel like wasting my time in this
> > discussion. Go your way, destroy the user experience we used to have.
> 
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