unity-design team mailing list archive

[André Oliva <gandreoliva@xxxxxxxxx>]

@Eylem Koca: I also think your way. I disagree with the idea of not having
an Ubuntu button on the top panel. User Sashin proposed this as a solution:
https://blueprints.launchpad.net/unity-shell/+spec/better-ubuntu-button-bfb(mockup
here:
https://sites.google.com/site/gandreoliva/hybridbutton )

Really I think its oversimplification of things. Not everyone wants an
"elementary-style" OS GUI, really. Simply there is a limit in simplification
of things. I simply don't understand the reason for oversimplification.
People simply don't want fullscreen in every application they work. I
remember that Unity was first created for space efficiency. But really,
there is **a lot** of space now. Why hide important things like window
controls and Ubuntu button? Things that are common for a lot of operating
systems...

2011/8/26 Jo-Erlend Schinstad <joerlend.schinstad@xxxxxxxxx>

> Den 27. aug. 2011 05:02, skrev James Jenner:
>
>
>> I agree with you in regards to people learning the behaviour of the
>> application, people are not stupid and they will learn how to do certain
>> activities. This is partly the building of the mental model and partly
>> muscle memory.
>>
>>
> I don't understand that. By moving the buttons to the corner, it is very
> easy
> to hit. Hiding the buttons do not in any way impact muscle memory.
>
>
>  However I disagree with your comment "since it is completely impossible to
>> click those buttons when the mouse isn't hovering over them, there is
>> absolutely no need to display them all the time". I don't agree because
>> hidden options are hard for new users to learn. How do they learn about the
>> hidden activities? How are they reminded how to do the hidden activities? A
>> better comparison would be with keyboard shortcuts that are not advertised
>> via menus. How do people learn about them and how do people get prompted to
>> assist in recalling how to do those activities? Scroll bars are another good
>> example.
>>
>>  Well. How do people learn how to move windows? How do they learn how to
> press enter in order to get a new line? There are things you need to learn
> when using a computer. Assuming otherwise, is not constructive. People
> learn these things because they use their computers.
>
>
>  Of course the actions for a window are generic to all platforms, and I
>> would have to agree that a user would search for the controls. Though it's
>> also possible that a user would not think to move the mouse over the border
>> to try and find hidden controls, just like some feedback where people get
>> confused by the changes in the scroll bars. I think while simplifying the
>> User Interface is a good thing, I think over simplifying it to the point
>> that a lot of the user interaction is hidden and not obvious is a bad thing.
>> The less infrequent the interaction, the bigger the risk of a large cost to
>> a user when they try to do an infrequent activity.  Just because an
>> interaction isn't frequent doesn't mean that hiding how you do that
>> interaction is a good thing.
>>
>>  You really think closing a window is an infrequent action? "When a window
> is maximized, the buttons are hidden and revealed when you move the
> mouse pointer to them". Lesson learned. You talk about over simplifying,
> but I think you're complicating things. If you aren't able to learn that
> the window controls are in the upper left corner, then you certainly won't
> be able to learn how to move windows, open the lenses or mostly anything
> else. Also, it is very important to remember that this kind of interaction
> is very common on the web, and that it is the most common thing people
> use computers for.
>
>  A lot of these changes have a big impact to different groups of people. To
>> me there should be some investigation of users who are novices to computers
>> (none or virtually no experience with windows), experienced with windows on
>> a daily basis but not 'power users', power users of windows. This is of
>> course presuming that a lot of take-up of ubuntu is either people with low
>> end hardware and/or not a lot of money or are from a windows background.
>>
>>
> I assume you're talking about Windows. But why is that so important?
> I was born in 1980 and when I grew up, we typed cd to switch directory,
> del to delete files, etc. Well, most users don't interact with their
> computers that way anymore. We cannot blindly do the same things
> because that's how they were done in the early days of computing. Most
> people have probably not even heard of Windows. We shouldn't try to be
> different for the sake of being different, but we certainly should not
> limit
> ourselves from fear of being different either.
>
>
> Jo-Erlend Schinstad
>
>
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