unity-design team mailing list archive

["pjssilva@xxxxxxxxx" <pjssilva@xxxxxxxxx>]

Dear Adrian,

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 6:31 AM, Adrian Maier <syraxes@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Wow ,  that's a shocking suggestion :  in order to see what's
> available I need to start an application.
> And this is supposed to be a progress compared to the old-style
> desktop environments that can display a quick list of categories
> without external software.

The Dash is part of Unity just like the "Application menu" is part of
Gnome 2. From the user point of view there isn't a new application to
open.

>
> I'd really like to understand the rationale against the idea of having
> some sort of applications browser that is usable like an old-style
> Applications menu    :    see a list of categories and be able to see
> the contents of a category WITHOUT clicking on anything.
>

You still have an application browser, the only difference, as you
said, is that you need to click on the categories, instead of just
moving the mouse.

> ...

>
> Please believe me that in gnome2 or xfce   I use the apps menu a lot .
>  It's easy enough so that i rarely feel the need to create shortcuts
> on a panel.   Every application has it's own well defined place inside
> the menu.
>

Here is the key for your discomfort. You are used to open your
applications using the menu and did not like the idea of typing the
name (or description) in the Dash. One of the main characteristics of
the Dash, IMHO, is that the best way to find an application using it
is by typing Super+"name or description of the application" instead of
using the mouse until pointing the right place. You should give it a
try, it is much faster than using a mouse and you'll get much faster
after one of two days. If you insist on using only the mouse, than the
Dash is certainly not a good choice for you.


> Hmm...   perhaps this is what irritates me about searching/filtering
> in the Dash :   when using these filters there is too much visual
> noise (huge icons ,   see more 666 results  ,  apps available for
> download )    and a particular application will never appear in the
> same place on the screen .
> The visual clutter gives me a constant feeling that I never know
> what's available for use .

But 99% of the time you know exactly what you want to open. You know
you want to open firefox, or thunderbird (or e-mail application), or
Writter, or emacs. Just time its name, it is fast and usually you'll
get a single option after 3 or for letters.

Where I think the Dash fails is for people that can't really type. I
have two children, one is 5 and the other one is 8. The one with 5
learned to recognize the word "Game" from the old Gnome 2 menu and
then to click on it (or hover ) to see the list of games. Now with the
Dash he needs first to click on "Filter" (and this does not seem
natural all for him). It would be nice to be able to have the list of
categories always open as an option.

best,

Paulo


>
>> Now, neither piece may yet be ideal, but we should improve the design of
>> those pieces for their specific purposes, not try to make everything do
>> everything.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> On 22/02/12 15:29, Adrian Maier wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 17:19, nick rundy<nrundy@xxxxxxxxxxx>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The problem is having to "expand" options, like the "See more results"
>>>> option. Too much stuff is being crammed into the dash.
>>>>
>>>> For example, on the Applications Lens, users should be able to use
>>>> setting
>>>> to configure it so that it ONLY shows the applications installed on the
>>>> machine. And by default shows ALL results. This way the user doesn't have
>>>> to
>>>> click so many things to get an expanded view of Applications. Also the
>>>> filters should not have to be expanded (which I believe is the case in
>>>> 12.04)
>>>>
>>>> @Adrian:
>>>>
>>>> if the Applications Lens defaults to show all stuff by default, then
>>>> Unity
>>>> is just as convenient as old-GNOME.
>>>>
>>>> 1. tap SUPER+A
>>>> 2. click GAMES
>>>
>>> That sounds like  just a workaround for solving a problem that didn't
>>> exist before changing  something that used to work well enough  ...
>>>
>>> If there is a big list with all the applications ,   it implies
>>> scrolling in order to find the category and then  finding the
>>> application.  Too much visual noise for getting done a simple thing.
>>>
>>> I really mean that the right solution is to have a real classic menu /
>>> list view .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:39:36 +0200
>>>>> From: syraxes@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>> To: unity-design@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: [Unity-design] Some impressions about the current status of
>>>>> Unity
>>>>> Hello people,
>>>>>
>>>>> Today I've been curious to see what is the current status of Unity
>>>>> compared to the version shipped last year with 11.04.
>>>>> So i've installed the Ubuntu daily beta 12.04 in a virtual machine .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The main thing I would like to comment about is : navigation around
>>>>> the available applications .
>>>>>
>>>>> I have chosen a simple task : " let's see what games are installed
>>>>> " . Steps :
>>>>> - CLICK on "ubuntu button"
>>>>> - looking for the word "categories" on screen. Couldn't find it.
>>>>> Finally figured out that "Filter results" might help with my task
>>>>> - CLICK on Filter Results
>>>>> - CLICK on Games
>>>>> - it displays : Aislerot Solitaire , Freecell Solitaire , Mahjongg ,
>>>>> Mines
>>>>> - hmm. Are there just 4 games installed ? apparently not - there
>>>>> is a link "See 1 more result"
>>>>> - CLICK on "see 1 more result".
>>>>>
>>>>> The next task "now let's see what development software is installed" .
>>>>> Steps :
>>>>> - the screen is still showing the previous screen with the games .
>>>>> - CLICK on Developer in "filter results"
>>>>> - nothing changes in the search results !
>>>>> - CLICK on Games , to deselect
>>>>> - the Developer software finally
>>>>>
>>>>> Result : after 6 clicks I have been able to see what games and what
>>>>> development tools are installed by default in 12.04 beta .
>>>>> Too big icons , on a normal display there will always be necessary
>>>>> to click on "see more N results".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Now let's see the steps needed to do the same tasks in Ubuntu 10.04 ,
>>>>> gnome 2 :
>>>>> - CLICK on "ubuntu button"
>>>>> - move the mouse over "Games" . Read the list of applications.
>>>>> - move the mouse over "Programming" . Read the list of applications.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for ranting , but killing productivity for visual cuteness is
>>>>> not progress ...
>>>>> It should be possible to have a classical menu with applications
>>>>> categories (maybe on right-click on the desktop).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My personal conclusion : the current Unity is just as disappointing
>>>>> as last year.
>>>>> Starting an application multiple times seems to be handled ok now
>>>>> (useful particularly for terminals).
>>>>> But there is still zero configurability (in settings ->  appearance
>>>>> the user can only change the wallpaper and autohide the launcher .
>>>>> Quite hilarious in a sad way ) .
>>>>> No possibility to disable the global menu .
>>>>> My main showstopper : no classic applications menu.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Adrian
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
>>>>> Post to : unity-design@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
>>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Adrian M
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
> Post to     : unity-design@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~unity-design
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp



-- 
Paulo José da Silva e Silva
Professor Associado, Dep. de Ciência da Computação
(Associate Professor, Computer Science Dept.)
Universidade de São Paulo - Brazil

e-mail: pjssilva@xxxxxxxxxx         Web: http://www.ime.usp.br/~pjssilva